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Switching from M receivers to P receivers on the Sphere i90s What changed?

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Edited

I did a lot of research on the Phonak Sphere i90’s before I bought them. One of the things I learned was the Sphere i90s used different compression algorithms than my Paradise hearing aids. That doesn’t seem very important, but my is very close to falling into the severe category, so with my regular M receivers, there wasn’t much headroom left for any additional hearing loss. And with the i90s’ tighter compression management, it was a real possibility I might get some distortion in the higher frequencies.

Because of that, I decided to order my i90s with P receivers as a way to avoid the distortion. The audi at Genesis didn’t agree with my reasoning and thought the P receivers would not work well with my loss. I talked to a couple of other audi’s who agreed with the Genesis audi, so I ordered the M receivers instead. I think one problem with audi’s who don’t wear hearing aids is they don’t experience what we hear. They use textbook theory, and “how’s that” to make adjustments. Sometimes that works out and sometimes it doesn’t.

As I posted previously, after a couple of fitting changes I felt my hearing was 95% as good as it was going to get, so it was time to stop adjusting. One of the things I discovered in engineering school, and again managing my company, was if anyone tries to minimize or maximize anything they usually wind up breaking it.

I had good clarity with speech, but like a lot of people, I felt the voices were a bit off. A couple of people on here (-user and someone else named Jordan) encouraged me to try the P receivers. So I did.

After fitting them, they made a difference. Voices sounded better, small details in the voices, like a scratchy throat, were easier to pick up, and overall, I didn’t have to pay as much attention to hear everything. The improvements were fairly consistent during streaming, Spheric Noise and Calm.

I fitted mine using EasyGuard domes. Yeah, I know I’m supposed to use double-flanged power domes or c-shells. I wore c-shells with my Paradise aids. However, when I tested the Sphereic i90s with power domes, c-shells and EasyGuard domes, the differences were barely perceptible. The EasyGuard domes had fewer occlusion issues, cleaning problems, and the sound was good. In other words, it was a really good combination.

Here are a couple of reasons I think the P receivers changed the sound of voices.

  1. The compression issue. They fixed it, so there were no distortions or changes at the high frequencies.
  2. I posted about the size of the P receivers vs the M’s. The size difference means the “speaker” which is a piece of vibrating aluminium that creates the air movement to transmit sound to the eardrum, is around 57% larger in the P’s. than in the M’s. That’s huge! Just compare how music sounds on a small speaker compared to one that’s sixty percent bigger.
  3. The size of the P’s means that there is less room for the domes to leak sound because they push the domes out harder against the ear canal. That’s a plus also. Of course, not all ear canals are going to be large enough to accommodate P receivers on domes. work better on smaller canals when using P receivers.

I had to make some volume adjustments to find the right default that had adequate volume and no floor hiss or static. It only took a couple of small adjustments.

And while I don’t have a lot of hearing ability, I have some. While my wife and I were watching a movie in our theater room (really good sound), I listened to the movie with my hearing aids in and out ( louder volumn) The voices were very similar. Not exact, but pretty close, and better than before with the M’s.

One downside to the P’s is they don’t add gain above 7500 hz, so they aren’t suitable for people listening to sounds above that.

I think I’m at 97% now without breaking anything, so I’m done!

Tip: When I changed the receivers in my Phonak Sphere i90s, I followed the instructions in the Phonak videos. Instead of coming out, it felt like I was stretching the wire instead.

I took a glasses-cleaning cloth, wrapped it over my index finger, grabbed the receiver wire right behind the connector, and pulled it straight out. No problem. No stretching. No hard pulling.

8 people in this conversation14 min readJump to latest

I would’ve potentially recommended P-receivers for your depending on your ear canal size. They’re more future proof due to the greater headroom and most fitting formulae aren’t providing audible gain above 7.5kHz anyway. I’m glad you’ve enjoyed success with them. Were they professionally fitted? Have you repeated and the feedback measurement with them?

Edited

I fitted the P’s myself. I usually do final adjustments, but this time I decided not to. It’s a large cost, $300 here, for a small benefit. Based on how these Sphere i90s are working, the cost-benefit ratio doesn’t seem to warrant an REM.

The 7500 hz issue causes a lot of confusion. My fitting HAP told me the M receivers have a richer, more expansive sound than the P’s, so I would hear more and hear everything better. That’s a theoretical answer. I think her response was based on the s, t and sh differentiation issue. And of course, bats and opera listeners enjoy sounds above 8000 hz. But as you know, as we grow older, we can’t hear any of that anyway. My days of hanging with the bats are over!

Cymbals may never sound the same with the P’s, but the P’s working for me.

@michael1 said:

is different in I amd P?

If you’re asking if M and P require a different fitting, yes. If an aid is fitted to an M receiver, then it has to be refitted for P. The and Gain are different, and there are other adjustments that the Target software makes.

In my case, the volume defaults were off, and on startup in a calm situation, I was getting a bit of floor hiss, so I had to turn the volume down a db or so.

All the custom programs remain the same, but sometimes the P fitting makes adjustments to them. Any autosense settings that are non-compatable are also changed.

So far, nothing has been a problem with the EasyGuard domes. If I switch domes, I’ll have to redo the fitting session for the new dome type.

When I first started doing my own fitting again after several years of letting Costco HAPs make the changes, I set up a training session using my . I ran it using EasyGuard, double-flanged power domes and c-shells for both the M and P receivers.

I noted the changes that the program made with each combination. When it was time to do the actual fitting, there weren’t any surprises.

I thought Starkey aids could do the same thing, but I haven’t had Starkey’s in a long time, so I’m not sure. I seriously considered the Starkety Omega before I bought the Phonaks. The Spheric i90s were more than a $1000 a pair less expensive and worked better for my hearing situation.

Sometimes luck is really important.

@Elderly said:

One downside to the P’s is they don’t add gain above 7500 hz, so they aren’t suitable for people listening to sounds above that.

If you look at my , you’ll see that I am theoretically eligible for the M receiver, which is also the default suggestion in Target Software. But that’s bullshit.
The P with power domes was substantially better.

However, I like to experiment, so I ordered the titanium cShell with the UP because it has a better frequency response above 7,500 Hz, which is odd. Typically, UP in SDS 4.0 and 5.0 has a narrower range, but with SDS 6.0 it counterintuitively performs better over 7500 Hz.
You can check this in the datasheet on the Phonak website; the cShell has a 1 mm diameter vent.

I can confirm this in my Phonak software.

However, The UP can only be used with the cShell; it is not possible to use even power domes. The drawback is that it is placed shallower than the P receiver, which decreases the benefits of Boyle’s law a bit.

I ordered a new titanium cShell with UP again, but this time without a vent to make the earmold narrower so that it can be placed deeper. I’ll post about the results.

I chose “no vent” for another reason: I’m disappointed that the cShell with a 1 mm vent can’t block out noise as well as the Unitron power domes.

I need that earplug effect to feel more comfortable when it’s extremely loud and when I rehabilitate my ear, which requires the exclusion of a better ear, because the brain is lazy and tries to use it whenever possible, worsening the effects of training.

I hear no floor noise despite near normal low frequency hearing.

P. S. I am not encourage you to UP, despite you should be even more eligible for that power. In my case I was simply curious.

Interesting. I looked at the UP specs, but it’s not my cup of tea.

The P’s are working really well with the EasyGuard domes. The M’s in my c-shells had to have the replaced once or twice a week in one ear because of wax. Since they cause the ear canal to heat up, they melt the wax, so it flows into the guard and the vent easier.

I used a # 1 Pikster to clean the vents, took the wax guard out and vacuumed the inside of the receiver, and then replaced the guard. Costco thought I was eating the wax guards with breakfast.

It was all a pain in the butt. I was very happy when the EasyGuard domes worked out.

Edited

In reply to @Bimodal_user

@Bimodal_user said:

However, I like to experiment, so I ordered the titanium cShell with the UP because it has a better frequency response above 7,500 Hz, which is odd. Typically, UP in SDS 4.0 and 5.0 has a narrower range, but with SDS 6.0 it counterintuitively performs better over 7500 Hz.
You can check this in the datasheet on the Phonak website; the cShell has a 1 mm diameter vent.

I can confirm this in my DIY Phonak software.

However, The UP can only be used with the cShell; it is not possible to use even power domes. The drawback is that it is placed shallower than the P receiver, which decreases the benefits of Boyle’s law a bit.

Screenshot_20260617_145633_OneDrive

20260617_151310

I have had Phonak I90s for more than a year, and I could not be more unhappy with them. I was not offered different receivers (M or P) so I don’t know what kind I have. I also can’t seem to find an audiologist who can program them correctly, and now I’m being charged for every 30 minute visit. I have an appointment with a new audi on Monday at the same practice I have been using, because the one I usually see is booked until September.

I have , and he only thing I’m happy with about with the current programming is that I can hear birds again outdoors But I still can’t determine what direction sounds are coming from. I still have to use CC when I watch TV. The spheric setting is worthless in groups and restaurants. It eliminates “noise” (fans, etc.) but not other voices. In fact, it seems to magnify distant speakers, so I can hear people speaking across the room louder than the person across the table from me. There is no situation that I hear well in, including a single visitor in my own home I constantly have to ask store clerks and healthcare providers to repeat what they have said, sometimes multiple times. Perhaps worst of all is that recorded music sounds totally distorted, such that I can’t recognize even the most familiar songs. Melodies are off-key, and background instrumentals don’t match the melodies, and sound like orchestras tuning up before a concert.
I am so frustrated that I just joined Costco, and am hoping a simpler will work better than what I have now But maybe the problem is the receiver??? I don’t know where to begin with the new Audi, especially because the visits are limited to 30 minutes, and I have so many problems. How do I find out what type of receiver I have?

A note: my hearing loss occurred as the result of inadequate ear protection during a lengthy scan 7 years ago. What doesn’t show in my is that word recognition in my right ear is 90% or better, but only about 25% in my left ear.

it should be written on the receiver body, the part that goes into your ear canal… without the dome, so you’ll need to take off the dome. it’s very small. I hope it will work out well

Edited

In reply to @Bird

@Bird said:

I have C-shells,

The power of the receiver should be printed on the surface of the cShell. Take a look at the photos with P receiver in this case:

For the curious - photos from breaking my old Phonak cShell with SDS 5.0 P receiver inside
[20250330_225855] [20250330_230116] [20250330_230234] [20250330_225939(1)(1)] [20250330_230004(1)] [20250330_230015(1)]

I recommend also that post below. Please write what diameter of your vents do you have and what wire lenght (printed on cShell):

Real Ear Measurement (R.E.M.)
@AltoGal, it sounds like there are two issues which are somewhat connected: The dome in your right ear doesn’t stay in place. Different positioning leads to changing acoustics. You never had REM done, so you don’t know if you get the amplification you need. Shame on your audi. Seriously. I’m inclined to say that fixing issue #1 is almost as important as doing REM. Without the receiver being consistently in the same place in your ear, you won’t have consistency in what you hear. You might do …
Edited

In reply to @dinaprrrr

I checked, and they are M. I’ll need to get new to have P receivers, which I am convinced from u/Elderly’s experience will give me better sound and voice comprehension, given that my hearing loss is now severe.

I still don’t know what to do about music distortion that is so great that I cannot recognize familiar songs, and instrumentals sound like chaotic noise.

I looked up my new audiologist. She is only 3 years out of school. I don’t know if this means she might be more or less likely to be familiar with I90s.

I bought a Noahlink programmer last year, and downloaded target software, but have not yet tried to use them. From what I’ve read, most people get better results by than with Audis’ by-the-book programming

The feedback threshold of the Easyguard domes is fairly high. I have not had any feedback issues using them with the P receivers, and I have all the gain I need. I use a size bigger in the EasyGuard domes than I did in the double-flanged power domes, and they seal really well. Currently, I don’t feel like I need P c-shells.

Glad the P receivers worked out for you. It’s the compression for sure. With the extra headroom on the P receivers, the Spheres seem to dial down the compression and everything just sounds better. I particularly notice it in the bass when listening to music.

Reminder to everyone…what’s good for you is what sounds good to you. Only you can judge, not the audiologist.

Jordan

Edited

In reply to @JordanK

@JordanK said:

Glad the P receivers worked out for you

Your original posts about your i90 experiences are what prompted me to take a close look at the P’s. Thank you for taking the time to document your adventure.

The compression is a real issue. No question.

I think the speaker size improves the fidelity a little also. It reduces compression too and pushes more air for better digital to analog conversion. I think the improvement is probably a combination of both.

Four sudi’s here rejected the notion of the headroom compression problem and the potential for distortion. That’s why I put the P’s on after I got the ’s with the M’s. For me, the M’s sounded very good, but the P’s are just a bit better in terms of voice quality.

As you know, most HA wearers don’t remember what natural voices sounded like, and they ain’t going to get that from any HA.

I tested the P’s for natural voice sound in my theater room. I took my aids out and listened to dialog with the volume set so I could understand everything comfortably. I noted the pitch, timbre and dynamic range. Then I ran the same dialog back with my i90s in and listened to it in Calm and Spheric Speech (just curious). With the P’s, I couldn’t tell the difference. In Calm, the voices sounded as natural through the i90s as they did without them. Of course, this is a low-rent test, but it’s good enough for me.

The Spheric Speech sounded pretty good, but the voices had a bit of shade (muffling) on them. So the quality loss for the benefit of the noise reduction and improved speech clarity isn’t too bad

Thanks again for your contributions!

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