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High Frequency Sound Issues

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I suffer from high frequency hearing loss, as well as certain indications of cognitive impairment. To help with both issues I’ve chosen Widex SmartRIC 440 hearing aids. I continue to struggle with my “audi” to eliminate high pitched sound from going over into sibilance, however. High pitched/powerful vocals & relatively high pitched broadcast speech are primary culprits. I’ve demo’d Oticon Intents & experienced very similar results, so I can believe that the problem might be something generic like ear tips (as mentioned on the forum). My audi initially fitted me with tips other than those delivered with the aids, to better accommodate a modest abnormality in my left canal. I asked to switch to domes, after a WIDEX audi we teleconferenced with mentioned them. My audi put on open domes, tho. Sound seems to be somewhat brighter, but my primary complaint persists. Does this sound like something would address and/or does anyone have other suggestions for my next communication with my audi?

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Needs Real Ear Measurement, unless you can see on the screen where the aid is going into saturation, you’re just throwing darts in the dark.

I re-fitted some Starkey this week and they had some really weird 2KHz resonance from target. The rest of the target wasn’t bad (small peak at 750Hz), but the 2KHz was off by more than 15dB (to 105dB output) with a speech signal at 60/65dB. Heck knows what it would have been like with someone singing or shouting.

Thanks for your input, Um_bongo. I’ll request a . I have seen them advocated for & don’t know why the 2 audis I’ve worked with in Massachusetts-USA haven’t done one.

I believe mass eye & ear uses . If I still worked in Boston, and the hadn’t taken me in, I’d probably be going there.

WH

In reply to @Um_bongo

I met with my audi, yesterday. She had done when I was originally fitted and did REM again yesterday to adjust for numerous changes made in the interim. The line graph now shows that the amplification in my ears is just as prescribed up to about 3k, drops slightly below target in the 3k-4k range, and drops very low above 4k (as she intends, given my complaint regarding higher pitched sounds).
Now my sibilance problem is worse, in that it occurs more frequently. :frowning:
The types of audio during which it occurs are the same.
High pitched vocals trigger sibilance that’s more like the sound created by other triggers…There’s less of a burst/cracking voice sound than there was.
Any thoughts?
Brian

Any chance you could give an indication of your . The kind of results you can expect with a HF loss at 60dB are entirely different than those at 110dB. This goes to the amount of controllable gain and whether the output is becoming saturated or distorted.

Edited

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Try entering values after clicking the green button; it will be easier to analyze.

@brian987 said:

High pitched vocals trigger sibilance that’s more like the sound created by other triggers

Only my “3 grosze” (Polish cents analogue) - does it isn’t simply feedback changed by imperfect active cancellation? I may be wrong, just I wonder…

Finally, maybe Widex service should check under warranty. Or your Audi in test box.

I had very similar experience with Oticon Intent demos I was loaned 7-10 days, ago. That leads me to believe it’s not the Widex design. or my specific aids. Thanks for your thoughts, tho

How long have you used hearing aids? Are these your first pair? After much time with poor hearing in high frequencies without amplification they may seem unnatural for you.

Maybe you have to get used to hearing aids; it takes time, even months, usually weeks.

Another solution is trying to modify gain in app equalizer. Adjust high frequency gain lower and they it.

I’ve been using hearing aids for 3 1/2 months. I started with a low level Signia product for a month, then got fitted with top of the line Widex during the first week of January. As mentioned, I also demo’d Oticon for several days recently. No doubt, adjustments do occur with your ears & brain :slight_smile:
Are you suggesting that the degree of amplification for high frequencies be reduced to a lower level than my calls for? My audi has amplification @ 6k & 8k set to less than 1/2 the level my audiogram calls for. [This has me frequently reaching to adjust the volume of audio outputs.]
I was aiming to reduce mental fatigue with this purchase, but it’s only increased so far :frowning:

@brian987 said:

Are you suggesting that the degree of amplification for high frequencies be reduced to a lower level than my audiogram calls for? My audi has amplification @ 6k & 8k set to less than 1/2 the level my audiogram calls for. [This has me frequently reaching to adjust the volume of audio outputs.]

What I really think is that you should (in the PERFECT case) have high frequency gain as it should be in terms of prescription algorithm (? or maybe 5.0?) and then try to get used to it.

If you feel tired by the amplification, adjust only the high frequencies in the app, not the volume.

After years of poor 6-8k hearing 3.5 months is a very short time.

Of course I assume that in you didn’t had bizzarre resonance (unwanted additional gain by e.g. individual characteristic of ear canal or pinna), as @Um_bongo supposed.

So you’re suggesting that—ideally—the full prescribed amplification should be programmed and I should live with it as best I can? [I have no problem with that and don’t know what else to try other than that, at this point.]
Mental fatigue is not caused by amplification, per se. It’s a result of sibilance. Though it seems intuitive that amplification & sibilance would be directly related, I’m not sure that’s the case. [My audi has kept reducing the high frequency amplification and the problem remains, or even gets worse.]
was used Tuesday to adjust amplification to exactly what my audi wanted.
Thanks, B

@brian987 said:

So you’re suggesting that—ideally—the full prescribed amplification should be programmed and I should live with it as best I can? [I have no problem with that and don’t know what else to try other than that, at this point.]

YesI would say more—although that is a bit of a different case—when I started using , every plastic bag rustle was terrible. I have gotten used to it, although I have more intensive current stimulation now.

@brian987 said:

[My audi has kept reducing the high frequency amplification and the problem remains, or even gets worse

Perhaps try something counterintuitive—make high frequencies more amplified. Maybe what you hear as sibilance is a comb filter effect (I could be wrong). That could be solved by more occluded fitting.

Does sibilance problem is on both sides?

I don’t think that’s correct.

The OP is using open domes, there’s 20dB or so of HF amplification needed, but that’s arriving with a processing delay that puts it more and more out of phase with the environmental signal arriving directly at the drum.

So you either use an aid with a better canal comparator/damping of the canal signal or you occlude the fitting more. ‘ALL’ aids use compression otherwise you wouldn’t get the dynamic range reduction needed to accommodate the recruitment of the wearer. Unfortunately people don’t understand how this actually sounds (like the higher intensity levels during TV advertising breaks), rather than echo or over-sibilant higher pitch delivery.

Unfortunately this points at a bit of lack of experience in terms of the fitter too.

Could be that too, the delay and frequency response. From what I see for the delay actual hearing aid are doing a good job on the delay part.
For the frequency response usually amplification after 4kHz is not the problem for the OP complain.

As said by OP:

" The line graph now shows that the amplification in my ears is just as prescribed up to about 3k, drops slightly below target in the 3k-4k range, and drops very low above 4k (as she intends, given my complaint regarding higher pitched sounds)."

Audiologist hear the complain “the sound is too sharp” and think “ok I need to lower the high frequencies”. The complain stays. So it 's something else.

The problem is between 1kHz & 3kHz. Could be the gain and/or the CR. If the was " as prescribed" as the OP seems to say. Well the target/prescription is wrong.

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