I have just arrived on the forum and am looking around the various comments and suggestions which are very interesting.
My audiologist has fitted me with Starkey Edge A1 24 hearing aids for evaluation and I’ve been testing them since the 16th May. I’m keeping a diary about my perceptions over time. The Starkey ’s have been set by my audiologist - only three programmes at the moment - personal, music and restaurant.
I would like to know if anyone on the forum has had experience with these HAs because I’m having quite a time of it trying to tune up to them.
What I know so far:
My hearing loss is severe/profound in the upper mid-range and high frequency range. It has been almost impossible for me to filter voices in situations where there is background noise. This seems to be shared by many people on the forum.
From a physical point of view I’m much happier with over-ear HAs than those that plug directly into the ear.
I realise that my brain has been compensating for the hearing loss for some time - it appears that the ear/brain interface is quite elastic and that it takes time to get used to the sound of a HA. Apparently, the brain can tune up to the HA so that one does not “hear” the HA over time.
I’m an audiophile, having worked in a radio station studio in the past. I’m used to listening to high quality sound and even with hearing loss I know largely what a piece of music should sound like.
What I’m finding:
The HA’s are comfortable although they have a piece of plastic extended out from the body - presumably to make it easier to remove them. The plastic extension is very irritating.
Good battery duration - the HAs battery charge gets low very late in the evening - say an 18-hour day. (not just working!)
Voices are now much clearer and I’m able to understand speech far better when watching TV or at the cinema.
Not quite used to restaurant mode but I think I’ll have to turn my head more toward a speaker when in conversation at a table. More to experiment with here.
In personal (standard) mode, I’m picking up room echo. The upper mid-range to high frequency range is far too bright. The sound is like listening to a cheap crystal microphone.
In music mode, the sound is a bit “flatter” in response (by that I mean less accentuation on the highs and slightly better lows). But the sound, when listening my stereo system (NAD M10 with Falcon LS3-5a mini monitors) is terrible. I can’t listen to music like this so something will have to give. There is no warmth on the mid-range to lower frequencies and highs sound brittle.
It is possible for me to set my own programme with an “equaliser” using the Starkey app in my iPhone, but it’s pretty limited - only three areas I can work with: low, mid and high.
Perhaps, this is going to be my lot but before I fall into despair I would be grateful for any comments/reassurances about my experiences.
I wear the Starkey Edge 24.
My loss is different than yours.
Your audiologist should have set up edge mode for use in noise.
On the app you tap edge mode.
You then have a choice between three programs.
Reduce nose is the bottom one.
I’ve used this program many times in noise.
It has worked for me every time.
Do you wear domes are do you wear moulds.
Domes the plastic may be a lock to help keep the domes in.
Moulds and is probably too help pull them out.
I had that cut off mine.
As far as music.
I can’t help. I have distortion in my left ear.
I also have a tin ear.
The aids can be adjusted to better fit your needs
The problem is does your audiologist know what they are doing.
You should have a 30 day trial.
If you can’t get satisfaction return them and try a different brand. Maybe even a different audiologist.
The Starkey Edge 24s are over-ear with the in-ear extension.
I think you are right, the plastic moulds are to help remove the earpieces but I can’t stand them so if I go with these I’ll remove that plastic piece.
I’m making a diary of all of my observations and what I can say is that the HAs are very good indeed in reducing background noise and allowing me to focus on listening to the speaker I want to hear. I haven’t yet tested the Edge Mode + which allows the HAs to sample the sound of the surrounding environment and then configure the HAs for optimised listening. So I’ll be very keen to check that out.
My problem is less with voice and noise filtering and more with listening to music. That’s why I’m interested in feedback from anyone on this forum who is a musician or sound engineer about how they adapted to their HAs for their work.
I’m satisfied that the audiologist is doing his job well. The Starkey’s are on evaluation so I do have the option of refusing the and trying something else. The problem is more with my requirement for listening to music. But there must be ways to optimise the sound.
If you search the forum
you’ll find a lot of musicians prefer Widex for music.
Even then it still boils down to the the audiologist.
I’m a proponent of all hearing aids can be programmed the way you want. But once again it all depends on the audiologist and how good they are.
A lot of people on the forum self program.
To them that was the only way they could get the aids like they wanted.
Apologies for the late response. I’ve been away for a day or two.
Well, after a few days under test, I certainly have some questions for the audiologist music-wise.
On the other hand, as far as noise reduction in restaurants, cafés etc the are certainly very effective. I can now pick up and understand speech easily. The Edge mode on the Starkeys is highly effective. It samples the environment I’m in and then provides filtering.
I agree with your observation that self-programming is best. At the moment, all I get on the Starkeys is a basic three-frequency band equaliser and I can’t see that being much good. I’ll stick around a bit to see what other people have done, particularly sound engineers and musicians.
Hi,
I have profound hearing loss in high pitch sounds. My audiologist, got the Starkey technician to come due to the complexity o my hearing loss.
I can now hear the blinker in my car. I also use a remote control microphone, for meetings .
Edge is definitely an amazing setting. You can add New programs had you “play “ with equaliser to find what works for you.
First time I went to a show and did t have to ask for an hearing aid connection, auditorium program was enough
I’m going to try the “restaurant” mode on the Starkeys a bit more. It does help in some restaurants but in places where there are hard walls and ceilings, I’m finding the Edge mode much better. It does mean that if I move to a different place in the building, I need to refresh the Edge mode to analyse the surroundings.
Certainly, in groups around a table, I’m having no problem hearing people.
I have used the equaliser but it’s too coarse for music so as freezerman404 mentioned, I really need to self-program. In music mode the have a nice flat response, as one would expect because sound filtering is turned off. Also, for concerts such as opera the Starkey’s are excellent in handling the dynamic range of the sound - voice and orchestra. However, I’m still getting that slightly “tinny” sound in the upper frequencies and a lack of warmth in the mid to mid-low frequencies. The equaliser has low, medium and high adjustment but it’s in 1dB steps. I need more like 0.5dB steps.
I’m still trying to find someone who is a musician using Starkey’s to see how they are getting on.
I have the Edge 24 but I use Bose or Apple earbuds for music. Mostly I use Starkey TV adapter at home and occasionally wear my when I go out. No complaints when out and Edge mode does help in noisy environments.
Thank you for your observations! As it happens, I have a Sony Bravia sound bar and it is capable of streaming direct to my . Which is fine, BUT because the sound is directed to the HAs only, the frequency response is very restricted. In order to get the full sound (including the lower frequency range), I need something like a headphone. In order to watch TV I need to turn the TV and sound bar audio off so as not to disturb others.
However, what I can do is use a pair of headphones with the HAs. By some miracle, I’m able to use a pair of Focal Bathys Headphones wearing the Starkeys. I’m not experiencing audible feedback from the HAs although I will check with my audiologist to see if inaudible (high frequency) feedback could occur when wearing headphones.
I agree that Edge mode is very effective in noisy environments but I need to find out if it does continuous analysis of the environment when you enable it or if you need to repeat the Edge mode calibration when you move to a different place.
Hi danzl
I have Edge , and been wearing them since February. We have similar hearing losses and I have upgraded from Oticon Opn.
I need to do a fine tune because I’m finding I’m missing out on parts of people’s speech. The trouble is (and why I’ve not gone for the fine tune yet) is I don’t know what I’m asking for!
The Edge AI has which was a main reason for switching.
I’ve found the Edge mode has worked in some situations, but in other noisy environments I am clueless as to what people are saying - even more so than I was with the Otricons.
But, on the whole, speech is better.
Battery life … I’m not so sure about. I’m getting a day out of them, but they’ve been in since 7.30am this morning (it’s 8.30pm now - so 13 hours) and they have 26% charge left. I am nervous about running out of juice.
And I’m not a fan of rechargeable batteries in hearing aids as I’m always fretting about them losing charge and/or degrading quickly.
Thank you very much for your comments. Much appreciated.
Firstly, on filtering, I’ve often found that the Edge mode is more effective than “Restaurant mode” although I expect the latter could be better adjusted. I was in a reasonably quiet cafe yesterday talking to one person across from me, about a metre way, and I was able to handle the conversation without going into “Restaurant mode”.
One thing I have noticed though is that filtering in “Restaurant mode” does not, in the least, get rid of occasional noise which is above background noise. For example, if there is a loud voice or laughter from another table in a restaurant I’ll definitely hear that above the people I’m talking to at the table. Loud clattering off dishes and banging of doors is still quite evident. I might add that there might be a neurological problem here in that I’m poor at filtering anyway!
Overall, as for you, I’m finding speech much better to capture so in nearly all table conversations I’ve had few problems.
On fine-tuning for music, the only way I think I’ll benefit is to have direct access to a fine tuning programme, play some music that I know very well and do an A/B comparison.
I can spend very long days on sites sometimes and can be moving around working from about 08:30 to 23:00 - some 16.5 to 17 hours. So far, I’ve been happy with the with regard to their battery duration. I hope that this will remain reasonably constant as they age. Also, as mentioned elsewhere on this forum, I have invested in a battery pack that can be plugged into the HA charger so that I can at least do a quick charge while I’m travelling around.
By the way, in hard walled rooms such as bathrooms and kitchens, I’m still perceiving a slight echo from sound bouncing off the wall. Are you hearing that at all?
I hope to put a summary of my findings here in the next week or two.
Hi there, i have exactly the same problem as you with same hearing aids …with trying to listen to music on my WiFi or concerts on my Sony Bravia TV.
In desperation to get close to what i remember of my favourite music , I have just recently purchased a Sennheiser HD569 over the ear headphones… and believe it or not, it didn’t make one iota of difference.
Like you say music detail is flat… cannot hear the rhythm of drums and singing sounds like it’s in the next room.
Personally, I feel Starkey failed to test their hearing aids with music lovers or musicians…
I too am in deep limbo and think this hearing aid is the very worst I have ever experienced.(Sorry Starkey!)
My NHS Oticon Intent is better than this aid.
So, having tried everything, numerous meetings with my lovely dispenser,
I am wondering if there is a HA exclusively for music?
No there’s nothing exclusively for music, as are designed for speech, however it’s usually not too hard to get music sounding acceptable, but a number of things come into play, receiver, acoustics and experience to get this sorted, Starkey are as good as any other brands, a number of people are happy with Widex models (zero delay supposably helps) but this is all down to the individual.
Post your audogram and exact model as this will help with advice.
I had the Starkey AI24 hearing aids. I have a Samsung S22 phone and I was losing connection with the Bluetooth constantly.
I think the sound with the Starkey was fine, however, I went to the Phonak Infinio Spheres and a much happier especially with no Bluetooth connection loss.
On two subjects, sharpness of highs and general music response, I have more news.
I went back to my audiologist and summarised my findings to date:
Sharpness in high frequencies. “Crystal mic” sound. To reduce this the audiologist slightly reduced the response in that region. Only slightly, since I now need time for my brain to take that in. That was three weeks ago and I can report that there is less sharpness. It’s still there but not as noticeable. So, I may get that adjusted again.
Music. I told my audiologist that the mid-to-mid-low frequencies were lacking life in music. Using his system, he was able to fine-tune that frequency range and bring the response up a bit. I haven’t had time to do much music listening but I do notice a better sound. Note that with his system a far greater number of frequency ranges can be adjusted.
As an aside, music mode turns off all HA noise reduction processing.
My intention is to get the fine tuning to the point where I’m satisfied with the overall response. I’d rather do this with the audiologist because I think that fiddling with a custom system might make a mess of the overall frequency response which was modelled on my original .
Another observation. For concerts such as opera, the Starkeys were very good indeed with the dynamic range of orchestra and voice.
I’m off to a local jazz festival in July where music can go from very soft to rock-loud depending on what stage I visit. That will be a good test.
One thing to watch, in my view, is the point where the HAs leave off and the ear itself takes over. HAs are not going to do those low frequencies all that well - just check the size of their microphones. They aren’t studio ribbon microphones (condenser, ribbon, dynamic or a combination of these). And here is where I’m finding some interesting things. If I push the HA earmolds further into my ear the sound DOES sound warmer. So, I need also to consider the fit of the ear mould in my ears. It may be that I’ll have to get customised earmolds.
Am I getting there with music? Not yet, but some improvements have already been made. The next thing I want to do is contact a recording engineer and visit a studio. If the engineer can play some music that I know I’ll hopefully be able to get an idea of what’s good or bad about my HA system.
On listening with headphones, by accident I’m finding that the headphones I have do work with the Starkeys inside them. Volume adjustment is quite sensitive but for now the audio response is OK.
My test for music is to listen to studio monitor speakers and hear the detail and presence of the music, including studio presence.
I’m trialling these aids from yesterday. They are ’s with the long chord. I’m told they are not only for pulling out the aids but that they are also aerials for the Bluetooth. Definitely not something to cut down.
I’m moving from Phonak Paradise ’s which are very good but right at the edge of my hearing loss (severe). They still have two years warranty left - so the Starkeys, at £4k plus, will have to be exceptionally good for me to jump ship.
So far they feel a lot bigger in my ears and are more visible but I will get used to that I think.
Very informative thread and I will be dropping in with my thoughts over the next two months.
It’s been a while since I last posted and I can now present more results after a period of experimentation with the Starkeys and how I have improved sound quality (as I perceive it) with some tuning of frequency response ranges.
As you may have found in other parts of the forum, there’s an awful lot of subjectivity in discussions because people’s ears and brains process sound in individual ways. Firstly, I had to wear the Starkeys for some weeks before by brain started to “burn in” with the new sound. Clearly, with my hearing loss, my brain appeared to have forgotten what a full frequency response was like. With music I only had a memory of what a particular sound track “should” sound like e.g warm mid-range, a clear sheen of a cymbal sound, the depth of the recording venue and so on.
So I’ve had to put some work in to test the Starkeys in various situations, noisy restaurants, live music venues, HiFi listening, opera with a full orchestra (very wide dynamic sound range).
For voice and general personal listening work, the Starkeys have been very effective indeed and recently I’ve been able to improve frequency response with the help of my audiologist.
Here are the results to date:
Voice modes
Voice in noisy surroundings:
I nearly always use Edge mode but a table mic might improve things - and you can get these. Edge mode does not get rid of louder transients and strong local voices in neighbouring tables in restaurants or pubs. I find myself concentrating on people’s mouths a lot in order to capture speech well. If the ambient noise is lower and a bit more distant, I have no problem.
On the other hand, I probably need to experiment more with the “Enhance Speech” or Reduce Noise” functions more. Currently, I’m using mainly “Best Sound” mode so I doubt that I’m getting the best from the HAs right now.
Restaurant mode is not particularly effective but it is directional - i.e. focused on what the head (and HAs ) are pointing toward. So I need to do more tests with this mode.
Roaming in the hills with wind noise
Edge mode is best for this but it’s not perfect when the wind is strong.
To improve this, my audiologist programmed an “outdoor mode” for me. This increased wind noise reduction so I hope to get some results about this change soon.
Music mode
Music at concerts
Excellent dynamic range and even at a measured 95dB in front of speakers, the Starkeys had no problem.
Music mode is best at open-air concerts, in-tent concerts, in an opera house and in front of stereo speakers.
The drawback with music mode is that the HAs are a straight amplifier at the frequencies they are optimised for so if there is ambient sound before and after a concert it is accentuated and can be irritating; (example, people rustling sweet packets, occasional speech, any exterior ambient noise at an outdoor concert venue etc)
So I need to deactivate music mode when a concert is over or when I’ve finished listening to music on my stereo system.
Music at home
I wrote this paragraph in my diary about 5 days ago - before I went to see my audiologist.
After many tests it’s clear that I am not yet satisfied listening to music. Given that my brain has had to learn when the HAs are approaching their lower frequency roll-off and when to integrate frequencies that are coming through the ear buds directly to the eardrum, I still experience a lack of warmth and depth in a lot of music (piano mid-range for example). High frequency ranges are too sharp. So, I’m not enjoying listening as much as I used to. Some more tuning up of frequency response may be useful but this would be better saved as an alternative programme on the iphone for future A-B testing.
I rely a lot on what my memory tells me about sound tracks I have listened to and, in particular, those I have used for testing HiFi equipment and speakers.
In my appointment with the audiologist we adjusted the following frequency ranges
3.3-9.4 kHz - reduce this range by a maximum of 2dB
(To reduce the accentuated high frequency response I’m perceiving)
(To increase warmth e.g. piano low to mid-range frequencies, violin and similar instruments)
In addition to the above, my audiologist reduced the range 7.5kHz - 9.4kHz for Personal mode.
(To reduce the sharpness in voice sibilants and slight echo from hard walls I perceive in Personal mode)
Results?
Music mode - results not yet recorded. I’ll report on that in a later post
Personal mode - immediate improvement with a reduction in the sharpness of highs. Very good.
The moral of the story so far is that I’ve needed to work at it but I’m seeing real improvements in how the Starkeys are performing.
Other features and findings..
The Starkeys are very good indeed with feedback cancelling! In Music mode I can actually use them inside my Headphones (Focal Bathys) which means I can stream the headphones from the TV sound system as well as my streaming amplifier and iphone. This is a real boon for me.
The sound is good although I’m sometimes aware of the cavity inside the headphones due to the HA amplification.
Losing a Starkey Hearing aid
TWICE, I have lost a hearing aid. In both cases I was leaning into bushes while gardening and the bush branches caught one HA. While I was able to roam around with the ‘Find My Hearing Aid” function and get to within half a meter of the HA, the directionality of the Bluetooth signal was not all that good. (I doubt that the location map would be much help – too wide an area location).
What did help immensely was that I could play the Self-Check tones and get a better hearing person to listen for the sound. That worked and we found the lost HA! As long as I have that sort of help, I’ll find the HA. I did not fully test using the one good ear to listen for the test tone but the difficulty would be in location since the sound is being picked up by one ear only.
I may ask the Starkey product people if they could add a function that sounds a warning when an HA is lost i.e. when the Bluetooth signal suddenly becomes very low. That would allow me to know immediately when I’ve lost an HA and would give me time to react before I move too far away to be able to see it.
Summary
The Starkeys have shown that they have great flexibility and that they can filter noise well. So far I’m satisfied with progress. Given that I’ve been an audiophile with some sound studio and broadcast experience in the past I’m surprised that things are going this well. On the other hand I’ve needed to work with my audiologist and be very picky about which frequency ranges are boosted or attenuated.
Also, Stu, attached is a photo of my . They fit behind the ear, are quite comfortable and are almost invisible. Yes, one can see the cable to the earmold assembly if you look carefully but it really isn’t all that visible.
Thanks! Your comprehensive post has given me lots to think about.
After four days things are taking shape. I noticed on Tuesday that wind noise was certainly worse than my Phonak ’s but I guess it’s because they do sit quite far inside my ears compared to the Starkeys. I’ll see if this can be adjusted.
Sound wise I’m hearing lots more higher frequency noises and yesterday I even heard a lady open a packet of sweets in the doctors surgery - even though she was sat quite a distance from me.
Fortunately I too have an excellent audiologist who is very patient with me. I’m a bit of a guinea pig for her as I’m the first Edge customer who intends to use the aids to their full potential.
I’m struggling a little with comfort as they are quite a bit bigger than my Phonaks but hopefully time will sort that. 12 hours and I’m ready for a rest.
Battery wise the 312’s seem to be lasting well although hardly streamed anything so far.
The lib tomorrow night should be interesting as will be the day out in Whitby tomorrow.
I’ll keep reporting back as I find out more about the aids.
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