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Naida V SP with Slim Tubes

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I received the Phonak Naida V SP aids yesterday. The sound tubes and open domes from my Savia 111 aids were taken off by unscrewing them and placed on the Phonak Naida V SP aids. The Naida aids were programmed per Phonaks program recommendations. This included feedback tests and using the bass boost function.

My first experience with this programming is it is not near enough power/gain for my hearing loss. I suspect this is due to the slim tubes. The Naida V SP uses the standard tubes only per programming.

My question for the experts is, can I just up the gain across the board to compensate for this swap in tubes? I am hoping to use these slim tubes for a more concealed application and easier to wear glasses.

Another thought is, will the aids learn on their own from using the volume when needed?

Thanks for any help.

6 people in this conversation9 min readJump to latest

The graph wouldn’t take into account opening the fitting up, in fact I think it says the point of a real ear to coupler difference measurement is to take the open venting out of the equation. You would perhaps have to close it up to get lower freq amp. No matter what tube you use.
No expert here

@shan said:

The graph wouldn’t take into account opening the fitting up, in fact I think it says the point of a real ear to coupler difference measurement is to take the open venting out of the equation. You would perhaps have to close it up to get lower freq amp. No matter what tube you use.
No expert here

Between your graph and the manual fine tuning page it should be easily done.

Thanks

I am confused.
There is NO slim tube fitting option in the Naida software!

So why are you putting slim tubes on a high power aid?

And why open domes?

If your audi made this tube change then he/she has behaved unethically that’s for sure!

If you need a slim tube design then get one.

If you need a high power design with custom earmould then get one.

However this mix-and-match idea is just plain WRONG.

shan,

Made the tuning changes per the chart you linked above. These aids are tuning out great. Thanks for your help.

EnglishDispenser,

The sound recover and WATER RESISTANCE are going to be pefect for my lifestyle. There is reasoning for this madness. :slight_smile:

WATER RESISTANCE

… ah … I see.

In such cases I switch from Phonak to Oticon, as they have this feature across all Epoqs … although maybe not as effective as the Naida.

Note: Being in the UK I am VERY cautious - we face horrific legal action & fines if we incorrectly supply and/or fit hearing aids. We have very little scope for ‘creativity’.

[quote=EnglishDispenser;27655 We have very little scope for ‘creativity’.[/quote]
If I had a small percentage of your knowledge about these aids this little creativity issue wouldn’t be an issue.

I appreciate all the help received from everyone here, the Pros and the Users!

Thanks

In reply to @Raudrive

@Raudrive said:

shan,

These aids are tuning out great. Thanks for your help.
The sound recover and WATER RESISTANCE are going to be pefect for my lifestyle. There is reasoning for this madness. :slight_smile:

I Got my Naida V SP aids fitted today. Also using the slim tubes. Audi had no problem setting them up. Cut off those long plastic what-you-call-thems that normally tuck in your ear, retained those short pull things on the custom slim-Tips. (sorry for my 1st grade descriptions, you know what i mean)

If this option did not work i was ready to plunk the money down for the Nios V’s.
The Naida SP is a more common sense approach to my hearing loss.

These slim tubes are more discreet (Tube fits closer to the contours of my ear) than those designed for the Nios Micro ’s and SlimTips that i have been using for the past 2 months. Plus they come in Black which is perfect, as it blends into the shadow behind my ear and hair

Have grown used to the Nios Mico but i am very happy with this first Naida/Slim tube fitting.

I am running the open domes with slim tubes. It has been about a week now and things are getting better each day. These Naida V SP aids have a refinement the Savia aids do not have. The Savia aids were doing great but I had feedback issues when they were pushed for more gain. The sound from the Naida aids is smoother, more realistic. They may be due to gain issues with the Savia aids, not sure.

Do you know if your audi adjusted gains up in the 2000 and 4000 frequencies to compensate for the slim tubes? These changes made a noticeable improvement to me in the quality of sound from the Naida aids.

Let me know how your Naida aid are doing for you.

@Raudrive said:

Do you know if your audi adjusted gains up in the 2000 and 4000 frequencies to compensate for the slim tubes? These changes made a noticeable improvement to me in the quality of sound from the Naida aids.

Let me know how your Naida aid are doing for you.

I told him of another person (YOU) that was also doing the Naida/Slimtube thing, but was using the open domes. His reaction was basically a reaction if i suggested to use a open dome. My hearing is worst than yours it appears, and i am using a Custom slimtip, which i understand simply replaces the big ear mold with a very tiny discreet one in the canal. So fitting would natuarally be different obviously from a open dome.

Sound was different than the Nios setup.
Initially we brought the volume down but not sure overall or in specific frequencies. Then i remember he lowered the gain in the higher freq. Then i think he boosted the midranges and then i think he moved the soundrecover back to 2500 Htz from 1500 Htz.

As you see i dont really know what he did. I can give you his email address privately, though i would hesitate to do that and dont know if it would accomplish anything or be apropriate. Dont want to push him as he’s a very busy Audi and has been wonderful and extremely reasonable. He does not need to sell me anything, he sells plenty naturally. He’s good and its a blessing. Kind of reminds me of EnglishDispenser. Just a hunch. Take that for a compliment. I thought i did not have a Excellent Audi in my area and began pricing tickets to fly over the pond.

Wanted to pass on a little update concerning the Nadia V SP aids with slim tubes. The Phonak program does not show these aids with the slim tubes for programming. Trying something a little out of the ordinary.

I have been doing my own tuning and therefore not an expert. The aids and I are doing better and better each day. With the help of this forum the quality of the aids is starting to show. It seems like each day I hear something that has not been heard in years.:slight_smile:

Happy Holidays

Just some general questions, Were you able to just unscrew the conventional earhook and screw on a thin tube setup? When you looked into doing that did you look at the possibility of connecting to a conventional size tube with a somewhat open dome? Do you know whether the open type domes are available to fit on a standard #13 tube? I’ve seen the but never the partially open.
shan

@shan said:

Just some general questions, Were you able to just unscrew the conventional earhook and screw on a thin tube setup? When you looked into doing that did you look at the possibility of connecting to a conventional size tube with a somewhat open dome? Do you know whether the open type domes are available to fit on a standard #13 tube? I’ve seen the closed domes but never the partially open.
shan

First question, yes, I was able to unscrew the slim tubes off my Savia 111 aids and directly screw them onto the Nadia V SP aids. These are the Unitron/Phonak female screw on slim tubes. The aids are male threaded fittings.

Second and third questions, yes, I looked into using the standard #13 tubes with domes. I have not found the open type domes that will fit the #13 standard tubes. There are “Clear Lucite Molds” available that are for short term usage according to John with precisehearing.

I got a pair of skeleton molds on standard #13 tubes with the Naida aids that could be whittled down and properly vented that may work well.

If someone knows of an over the counter dome that fits the standard #13 tubes, I would sure like to know.

Happy Holidays

Speaking as an experienced American dispenser who fits a lot of Phonak, the problem isn’t with the slim tubes themselves, it’s more with the acoustic coupler (mold, dome, etc). The Naida family was never envisioned to be fit open and in the world of fitting and audiology, that either means a slim tube or having the receiver in the ear with an open dome on it. Since the Naida was never intended to be fit this way, it’s logical that Phonak would not have it that way in their software, even though tubing these days doesn’t make the same difference it did in the days of analog aids when you didn’t have that much control over the aid. If you have the proper mold on the end of the slim tube, there is no reason one could not use this type of fitting on even an UP Naida and get not only a discreet fitting, but the frequency response you need to compensate for the kinds of profound losses these aids were designed to handle.

In terms of the molds themselves, a slim tip could work provided it had no vent. However, most earmold manufacturers in the US will make slim tube molds (often called receiver molds) in the different styles (half shell, full shell, canal, etc) with or without venting that will properly couple the tube to the ear. Very often for a truly profound case, I won’t use a vent because it will cause the aid to feed back when it gets the kind of power that’s needed – I can use the occlusion control in the software to compensate for the lack of a vent. Further, I just tell the aid that it’s a standard tube with a standard mold that’s occluded and it takes it from there. Yes I am lying to the hearing aid about what it’s tied to, but it doesn’t know the difference and my patient hears the same thing, so what’s the foul?

I did end my trial back in January 2010 with the Naida SP, slim tubes and the slim-tip molds.

  1. My left ear canal could not retain the slimtip because of the way it was shaped with years of use in that ear. Audie never recommended another type mold with a lock because we were experimenting and the cost may have winded up wasted.
    Right ear fitting was fine.
  2. Something was not right, i was struggling to hear in familiar situations. Audie was busy, could not get in his office under two weeks span. Trial period would have lasted months.

I was hearing pretty well with the Neos 3’s with slimtip molds and slim tubes before i decided there was not much room for more gain if i ever needed it and asked for the slim tube Naida set up trial.
So here i am almost six months later and another embarrassing, struggling to hear meeting in a restaurant failure. Pondering whether to go to Oticon to try the Agil or wait till the fall for the new high power Oticon said to be releasing.

In reply to @Auditor_Maximus

@Auditor_Maximus said:

Speaking as an experienced American dispenser who fits a lot of Phonak, the problem isn’t with the slim tubes themselves, it’s more with the acoustic coupler (mold, dome, etc). The Naida family was never envisioned to be fit open and in the world of fitting and audiology, that either means a slim tube or having the receiver in the ear with an open dome on it. Since the Naida was never intended to be fit this way, it’s logical that Phonak would not have it that way in their software, even though tubing these days doesn’t make the same difference it did in the days of analog aids when you didn’t have that much control over the aid. If you have the proper mold on the end of the slim tube, there is no reason one could not use this type of fitting on even an UP Naida and get not only a discreet fitting, but the frequency response you need to compensate for the kinds of profound losses these aids were designed to handle.

In terms of the molds themselves, a slim tip could work provided it had no vent. However, most earmold manufacturers in the US will make slim tube molds (often called receiver molds) in the different styles (half shell, full shell, canal, etc) with or without venting that will properly couple the tube to the ear. Very often for a truly profound case, I won’t use a vent because it will cause the aid to feed back when it gets the kind of power that’s needed – I can use the occlusion control in the software to compensate for the lack of a vent. Further, I just tell the aid that it’s a standard tube with a standard mold that’s occluded and it takes it from there. Yes I am lying to the hearing aid about what it’s tied to, but it doesn’t know the difference and my patient hears the same thing, so what’s the foul?

Reading your post just made my day!! :D:D:D
My story of finding the right hearing aid and audiologist is a long one, so not going into that again. But I did finally found an audi that seems to be able to work with me, and she also recommended that we keep the slim tubing and just have a mould made for the canal. I wasnt sure if this is the right way to go, (thought it had to be the standard tubing to work 100%) but you just confirmed that my logic about it was right after all.
Just one question, do you need to do a lot of compensation (frequency wise) for the slim tubes v standard tubes?

In reply to @Auditor_Maximus

@Auditor_Maximus said:

Speaking as an experienced American dispenser who fits a lot of Phonak, the problem isn’t with the slim tubes themselves, it’s more with the acoustic coupler (mold, dome, etc). The Naida family was never envisioned to be fit open and in the world of fitting and audiology, that either means a slim tube or having the receiver in the ear with an open dome on it. Since the Naida was never intended to be fit this way, it’s logical that Phonak would not have it that way in their software, even though tubing these days doesn’t make the same difference it did in the days of analog aids when you didn’t have that much control over the aid. If you have the proper mold on the end of the slim tube, there is no reason one could not use this type of fitting on even an UP Naida and get not only a discreet fitting, but the frequency response you need to compensate for the kinds of profound losses these aids were designed to handle.

In terms of the molds themselves, a slim tip could work provided it had no vent. However, most earmold manufacturers in the US will make slim tube molds (often called receiver molds) in the different styles (half shell, full shell, canal, etc) with or without venting that will properly couple the tube to the ear. Very often for a truly profound case, I won’t use a vent because it will cause the aid to feed back when it gets the kind of power that’s needed – I can use the occlusion control in the software to compensate for the lack of a vent. Further, I just tell the aid that it’s a standard tube with a standard mold that’s occluded and it takes it from there. Yes I am lying to the hearing aid about what it’s tied to, but it doesn’t know the difference and my patient hears the same thing, so what’s the foul?

Thanks for this helpful post. It explains the inconsistency I was seeing with the slim tube Nadia V SP aids. I have not been able to find the Phonak slim tips. Are they available on the net? I now use the Phonak Exelia Art M aids with slim tubes and open domes. This has proven to be very good in my opinion but have no professional comparison except a visit with an audiologist and Oticon Epoq WX aids.

Thanks again

@Raudrive said:

Thanks for this helpful post. It explains the inconsistency I was seeing with the slim tube open fit Nadia V SP aids. I have not been able to find the Phonak slim tips. Are they available on the net?

Thanks again

Phonak SlimTips are custom molds made with a soft flexible material. The impression is made by the Audie and sent to be scanned and archived as a record of your canals in case a new one needs to be made. They are made by automated machine that reads the file of your scanned impressions. Hope this is right, close enough i guess.

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