Not every ‘flavour’ of burns the same cycles. Not every chip has the same power requirements even to produce similar computational output. Not every company uses the same voltage splitting technique. Not every version of AI implementation is as fast or delivers such good signal to noise improvement.
It’s always easier to build a system if you have a bigger fuel tank at your disposal. However it may be possible to refine an existing system to run on 50% of the Volts and have an acceptable level of improvement.
The difference between the Intent and the Verit is that due to the use of zinc-air batteries in the Verit, thy do not include the Intent’s 4 D Sensors, due to lower power.
IIRC, accelerometers entered our discussion when Phonak Paradise came out in rechargeable and traditional battery versions, with accelerometer-enabled features missing from the latter. I speculated that this was due to the unavailability of accelerometers that could run on zinc-air voltage or power. It was a reasonable guess but wrong. So I may have contributed to the misconception you’re stating. In fact, solid-state accelerometers that can run on zinc-air voltages are listed by component manufacturers. As for power, those devices draw very little current, so power wouldn’t seem to be an issue.
More recently someone posted that hearing aids from multiple manufacturers are made with a sub-assembly that includes an accelerometer along with other components, I don’t remember which, made for lithium-ion voltage. He suggested that this was the reason why zinc-air powered aids don’t include accelerometer-based features. That makes sense to me. It doesn’t imply that a similar sub-assembly couldn’t be made to work on zinc-ion voltage. Rather, it’s a statement of what’s currently available for hearing aid manufacturers to buy at an acceptable cost.
Probably there was also Oticon Intent marketing graph comparing 4D vs. without 4D
My question was more along the lines of whether Verit is dumbed down compared to Intent DNN for sound processing without the added effect of 4D sensors.
I prefer disposables. However, when I got Lumitys with disposable batteries a couple years ago, the seller emailed me to check that I knew what I’d ordered (online sale). She said almost every buyer who ordered disposables was upset when they received them. They hadn’t paid enough attention to the description and really wanted rechargeables.
I have friends who need aids and are just beginning to accept that and thinking about it. When I recommended Costco, the first thing the wife said was, “Are they rechargeable?” That’s her first requirement.
So I agree with those who say it won’t be long before all you can get will be rechargeables, and as usual, my preference loses.
As to backup aids, I’ve kept an older pair of Rexton Trax 42s and had to pull them out and use them a couple times - loss, one not working. It’s happened. Last time it did, I had to rely on the Traxes for a couple of weeks after I realized Costco didn’t have a Phonak-related aid - it was before they started selling the Sonite R. Then I had to decide whether to explore one of the other Costco choices or go elsewhere for Phonaks. Yes, I wanted the way the KS9s worked with my old Android phone badly enough to do that, but the cost of Phonaks from a private audiologist was beyond me, so then I had to figure out what to do.
What gave me time to decide and research, was that when I asked the Costco audiologist if she could still update the Traxes to my most recent hearing test, she did just that. They weren’t too bad, but no phone to , no TV connector. The necessary intermediate device for that had quite working and been tossed out long ago.
Someday the Lumitys with the disposable batteries will become the backups, but not for a while, and having disposable battery backups that can sit for years and just work as ever when you put new batteries in is IMO much better than worrying about what will happen when you try to use rechargeables after they’ve been out of action a while.
I completely understand your concern, and I hope manufacturers continue to offer hearing aids with replaceable batteries. While the industry is clearly moving toward rechargeable models, there are still several current hearing aids that use disposable batteries.
Like you, I appreciate the convenience of disposable batteries when I’m away from reliable power. I currently wear Phonak Audeo Lumity L90-RL rechargeables as my primary hearing aids, and they work very well. However, when I go camping or on overnight backpacking trips, I leave them at home and take my hearing aids that use 312 batteries. They’re not nearly as good as my Phonaks, but they’re good enough for those trips, and it’s much easier to toss a few spare 312 batteries into my backpack than to carry a charging case, charging cable, and worry about finding electricity.
I still have about another year before I’m eligible to upgrade my hearing aids through the . I’m hoping Phonak will continue to offer a premium receiver-in-canal model with replaceable 312 batteries—perhaps an Infinio-based model—but only time will tell. If they don’t, it will make the decision much harder for those of us who regularly travel or spend time off the grid.
Rechargeables are a great solution for many people, and I certainly understand why they’re popular. But for those of us who camp, hike, travel internationally, or spend extended time away from power, replaceable batteries still offer a level of convenience and reliability that rechargeable hearing aids simply haven’t matched yet. I hope manufacturers continue to recognize that there’s still a real need for both options.
I’m glad I saved my old analog aids from 15 and 18 years ago. They are my backups and still work, with a #13 battery of course. These new rechargeable aids I have now are my first pair. I can’t foresee into the future, saving these rechargeable aids as backups. Will they still hold a charge or be able to accept a charge after sitting in it’s case for a few years. Who knows?
More recently someone posted that hearing aids from multiple manufacturers are made with a sub-assembly that includes an accelerometer along with other components, I don’t remember which, made for lithium-ion voltage. He suggested that this was the reason why zinc-air powered aids don’t include accelerometer-based features. That makes sense to me
My question was more along the lines of whether Verit DNN is dumbed down compared to Intent DNN for sound processing without the added effect of 4D sensors.
The Verit uses the same as the Intent, so I don’t think there’d be too much difference tbh.
Matter of fact, when I started wearing the Intents, I really disliked all the digital processing that More Sound Intelligence was producing, so I disabled it, and find it much more natural ( or so I imagine, with my loss).
The Verit uses the same DNN as the Intent, so I don’t think there’d be too much difference tbh.
That’s my guess too. But I wanted to ask @Um_bongo in case he’s heard anything to the contrary through his professional connections.
Another thought: Per Hearing Tracker, “Verit is built on Oticon’s Sirius platform—the same core platform that powers Oticon Intent”. I wonder if this means that the hardware was adaptable to zinc-air batteries from when it came out in 2024, and its release with rechargeables only was purely a business decision. That would be ironic, considering all the talk here about zinc-air being a dead-end technology.
Part of it may be a difference in the person’s perceived reliance on hearing aids. If someone never had them before… well, they were living just fine without them up until now, and probably aren’t bothered by the prospect of needing to occasionally take them out to charge. Someone who’s had them for a long time probably has worse hearing that someone just starting out with them, and even if not, they’re more used to having them for everything and less confident in their ability to manage without them for a few hours if need be.
I wonder if this means that the hardware was adaptable to zinc-air batteries from when it came out in 2024, and its release with rechargeables only was purely a business decision. That would be ironic, considering all the talk here about zinc-air being a dead-end technology.
That’s probably a question Oticon would prefer not to answer, right?
Maybe they just got tired of all the flack over non-disposables, and figured they could do it by dropping the 4 D Sensors which take up space and power.
That’s my guess too. But I wanted to ask @Um_bongo in case he’s heard anything to the contrary through his professional connections.
I haven’t had cause to fit a Verit. Some of the most significant advantages of the top aids were ‘apparently’ linked to where the 4D sensor was pointing. I’m not sure how you’d actually benchmark a dynamic response that involves both head movements AND directional pattern changes.
The accelerometer is required for two of the D’s, head movement and body movement. The other two D’s, conversation and acoustic environment, are presumably still monitored in Verit.
Personally, I love everything that is rechargeable, well apart from hearing aids! I am for my sins an unashamed geek at almost 70 years of age, living in the remote Scottish Highlands, my internet speed is around 2000mbps, Upload & Download is symmetrical… I have 10kWh of solar panels on my roof, and 48kWh of Lithium battery storage, which works extremely well, even at this northern latitude… I am about to embark on a new or second hand EV car for my wife, I have yet to decide between 75kWh or 60kWh, it’s a no brainer to me, as I will get 90% of the EV fuel for free via my solar panels… or charge up in the winter months overnight at 3.9 pence per kWh…
I have been saving furiously for many months, I now have enough to buy a 3 year old 60kWh with very low miles, or lease a brand spanking new 75kWh EV, it’s a toss up between the two? I previously owned a BMW i3 with a petrol range extender, but the actual battery was too small at around 30kwh, so range was limited, my solar panels were only 4kWh at that particular time, with no storage capacity. To my way of thinking, zinc-air could easily be stepped up to accommodate a bigger voltage, it’s not rocket science, but I believe the major manufacturers prefer the built in obsolescence of rechargeable aids… Cheers Kev
Wales, UK
Poland
Vancouver, Washington
Scottish Highlands