Anyone know why Phonak hasn't come out with an Apple Watch app?

eBay generally does not provide a manufacturer’s warranty for hearing aids, especially for used ones. While eBay offers a 30-day Money Back Guarantee, manufacturer warranties typically require purchase from authorized dealers, which most eBay sellers are not.
When you buy anything HA-related on eBay it’s a gamble, usually in the house’s favor.

eBay purchasing is very safe these days but you have to do your homework.

If the item is INAD (item not as described ), you can send it back with no additional costs (it is almost impossible to fight the INAD as a seller ). The INAD process is super simple.

If you don’t get the item bought , eBay will refund you.

Many items on eBay have the option to buy a 1 or 2yrs with AllState ( it used be SquaredTrade). I have used this in the past and I have gotten my money back even after 1 yr).

I bought my Widex SmartRIC (audiologist price:$5000) for $300 plus $50 for both receivers. I added a 2yr warranty for about $60. Total was about $460. I’ve been using them for about a year now with no issues.

So we are talking $4500 difference in this case. I recently bought a programming unit (Widex pro-link) for $25 (retail is over $250) . I shared my experience with the process a year ago here . $4500 is not worth the manufacturers warranty in this case . You could also buy the ESCO warranty, which my audiologist recommended for out of warranty aids.

I understand that buying used is not for everyone but for those you understand the process, the savings can be very significant.

Recently I saw a Truhearing 6 Advanced ( a Signia 5AX) with replaceable batteries for $150. For that price I’ll take the risk and I’ll program it for a friend of mine who is struggling with money right now.

Thanks for all the discussion. I’m not advocating anyone get an Apple Watch, but for those of us who have one, it would seem to be very useful to have a way to, at least, select a program (instead of having to cycle through all the available ones using the HA button). As I mentioned in my original post, the Phonak rep to whom I spoke did NOT say there was anything preventing them from coming out with an Apple Watch app, but only that they hadn’t thought of the need for a program selection function before. I don’t think they need to create an Apple Watch program that has all of the functionality of the iPhone app, but at least allows program selection. I’d love to hear any other functionality for an Apple Watch app people that can think of.

I just got my new Phonak top of the line hearing aids today. I’ve had two Resound hearing aids in the past they have been seamlessly pairing with Apple Phone and watch for at least 10 years. I think I like the Phonak aids but it seems unnescesarilly complicated to make adjustments. It was so easy to do it directly from my phone or watch.

No, I have already explained this.
https://forum.hearingtracker.com/t/anyone-know-why-phonak-hasnt-come-out-with-an-apple-watch-app/110458/29

Phonak HAs communicate with the app via Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) and Bluetooth classic (BTC) for all other functions. However, Phonak can only establish one BLE connection at a time. Consequently, HAs cannot simultaneously communicate with a Watch and an iPhone. The only feasible solution would be for Phonak to connect to the Apple Watch via BTC, which would be highly power-inefficient (Apple would not allow this in their app store). As previously explained, the HA Watch app serves as a remote control for the iPhone app, not an independent application. Therefore, the watch app does not directly communicate with the HAs.

The only way a WatchOS device can have the app is if they use the accessibility API and Phonak is not allowed to do this because they are not certified and licensed by Apple (MFi licensing).

But, if you have a source, from Apple, that shows an app can have access to the mentioned API without being licensed, please share. Maybe in Android because it is open source but not with Apple.

But the Apple Watch app doesn't need to connect directly to the HAs if the HAs are connected to the iOS app on the phone. The watch app only needs to act as a remote control for the phone app. Is that infeasible?

OcramSagev said

“Apple and Phonak are working on LE Audio. Once both platforms enable that, Phonak’s should be able to use Apple’s API and the WatchOS app can be added without much work.”

What does this mean in terms of MFI HA’s connection to Apple devices? Will API now have full LE audio capability? I understand that many BT connectivity issues (signal drop outs) are caused by MFI using only LE, not LE audio.

I can’t predict the future. Apple hasn’t made any announcements about BLE Audio, and they’re extremely secretive about their projects.

The reason I mentioned that they are working on it is because (1) it has to happen eventually, and (2) Phonak has stated that they are working on it.

And yes, many of the issues you mentioned can be attributed to LE and the Audio codecs available (codec = compression <=> decompression).

BLE was not designed for audio. It was intended for low-bandwidth devices like mice and remotes, but the need for low-energy audio was still present. Consequently, Apple and Google developed “workarounds” to address this need (before this, you could only stream with expensive propietary accessories). However, the audio codecs were never truly optimized for this low bandwidth, which explains the quality issues you mentioned.

LE Audio introduced an very efficient codec (LC3) that delivers superior sound quality within the limitations of Bluetooth Low Energy. Unlike Bluetooth Classic, which lacks the bandwidth restrictions of LE, it offers greater stability and sound quality on iPhones (at the cost of higher energy consumption).

@greg.smith said:

You do keep repeating yourself but it’s not clear if you are actually engaging with the content of my posts.

I am in the context of the OPs question (Phonak).

@greg.smith said:

Can an Apple Watch app establish a connection to the iOS app, sending a control message which in turn results in control of the HAs by BLE in precisely the same manner it already does? For greater clarity, this would involve no connection of HAs to the watch.

I already answered this multiple times. As long as the HAs are MFi licensed, yes, the WatchOS app is a "remote control" of the IOS app.

(See paragraph 4,5 of my previous answer)

https://forum.hearingtracker.com/t/anyone-know-why-phonak-hasnt-come-out-with-an-apple-watch-app/110458/29

@OcramSagev said:

Most apps on WatchOS are just “remote controls” of the apps on the iPhone. Very few apps are full apps. THis is done to maximize battery. This is very tightly controlled by Apple.

This also means the WatchOS HAs app does not control the aids directly. If your iPhone is off (or far away), the WatchOS HA app won’t work. If you increase the HA volume from your watch, that instruction is sent to IOS and IOS sends the signal to your phone.

What happens when the HA is not MFi: It cannot use Apple’s API. In this case (Phonak’s), there is a bluetooth connection and the app manages the aids directly, not through IOS and the Watch is not automatically receiving HA data. This is why you cannot manage Phonak aids from the IOS Accessability settings menu.

Forgive me for continuing to revisit this, but what I'm trying to understand clearly is why it would be a problem to control the HAs indirectly. It sounds like it's not actually a technical issue, but rather that Apple wouldn't approve a solution that replicates/works around (but does not inherently require) APIs that are only available to MFi devices.

Google AI Overview

Phonak does not offer an Apple Watch app because the company believes customer demand is too low to justify the development and support costs. [1]

Why Phonak Skips an Apple Watch App

• Low Return on Investment: Most users do not change their hearing aid settings throughout the day, so Phonak sees little financial benefit in spending engineering resources to build and maintain a watch app. [1]
• Support Burden: Audiologists often discourage extra accessory apps because they have to troubleshoot connectivity problems when patients experience technical glitches. [1]
• Bluetooth Architecture: Phonak uses standard Bluetooth Classic rather than strict low-energy proprietary protocols for direct streaming, making a streamlined watch companion less straightforward than it is for "Made for iPhone" competitors.

@OcramSagev said:

As long as the HAs are MFi licensed, yes, the WatchOS app is a "remote control" of the IOS app.

If they aren’t trying to do it apple’s way, but via their own implementation, it can probably work. I use a watch app which controls the iOS version of the app on my phone which in turn sends audio to my ears. Regardless of mfi, there are other ways to have apps on watches and iPhones communicate. To some extent I see this as a discussion of the number of angels that could dance on the head of a pin. If Phonak never cares to try then you’ll never see it. I’d rather see LE audio on my i90s first.

WH

I don’t think a hearing aid forum is the right place for this technical discussion and now i’m sorry I gave a technical explanation about Apple APIs and connectivity that I think it is not for this audience.

If you are interested in learning more about the connectivity , here is getting started article from Apple. I’m not going to continue explaining this.

I’ll check it out. Thanks for the link.

WH