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Real Ear Measurement (R.E.M.)

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@Neville

It’s ok. Since I left I’ve cleaned my hearing aids and inserts. And replaced. As an old biker I know my mc had much more hp after I cleaned it with Harley Gunk.

If I keep saying WHAT? Excuse me?…I know my wax guards need changing.

I wish I could try NL3 in my aids. My next appt is August 11th at the specialist.

I used the music program for a few months when my ha were about 6 months old. No auto sense. Conclision? That wasn’t such a good idea was it?

I wish they could update auto sense in my ha. I’d be more brand loyal if they did.

I was a pro photographer in film days. My two F3s and motor drives retained their value. Then digital came. I haven’t been brand loyal since.

Rambling. Wish I could understand what’s being said.

Meantime my specialist used to be general manager of Starkey Canada. After 3 years he has Starkey sign in amongst all the names stencilled on his wall. His emphasis used to be Resound. I heard a rumour they were sold.

. MY DISPENSING AUDI always used REM. Except for the first fit he did the last time I saw him

I’m tired. Sorry for the caps.

Current state? In th dentists office today. I couldn’t hear a word from the tv 8 feet away. And with no ha I needed to cup my ear when my wife talked. Our chairs were side-by-each.

In reply to @Neville

@Neville said:

I’m not sure that turning off the automatic program is a good universal solution just because it’s your personal preference.

Neville, turning off Autosense, especially Autosense 7, isn’t about a personal preference. It’s about determining what’s wrong with i90s that aren’t working for some users.

Autosense causes a lot of conflicts, including volume changes that shouldn’t happen, distortion and reduced clarity under some circumstances. The reason is the ERA chip has gotten much faster and is processing more background data at higher speeds to make changes for the detected environment quicker. That can cause conflicts.

When that happens, fitters start making adjustments to correct what the user is telling them. The number of adjustments can increase the problems, not fix them.

To figure out why an is not working properly, it’s generally better to completely turn off automated control of the gain and functions. When that is eliminated, then it’s easier to figure out what is really going on because a computer chip is not whipsawing settings around.

If hearing improves with only the two custom programs, Calm and Spheric Speech, then the hearing issues are related to the Autosense function. If the hearing issues don’t improve with just those two programs, then the auto fitting is way off. Time to rethink the entire process.

I’m only talking about not using Autosense when the problems have not been solved with far too many adjustments over long periods of time. It’s also a good way to test the basic functions of a new hearing aid without any lace on it to see how it works with a user’s .

If an HA user likes Autosense and what it does for them, that’s a plus. I’m not on a crusade to eliminate Autosense. My wife likes it. I’m not going to tell her to get rid of it.

My suggestion to remove it is only for hard to fix issues. And yes, I know Calm is a frequently used program.

@Elderly

I told my dispensing Audi I thought there were simple problems in my setup. There were two. Paradise P90. The RT and L hearing aids weren’t linked together. And he had open domes on and specified. He was a gentleman. There may have been others. I know of a major one but won’t talk here.

But I’ve fallen into every rabbit hole presented here. And lived in some for a long long time.

I wish our hearing aids had a dufis alarm that would alert us to omissions and bad settings

And I wish hearing tests would be done where we have problems hearing

@Neville has my respectfor the help he has given me

Edited

In reply to @Elderly

Ah, so turn it back on once the problem is identified and resolved. Reasonable enough.

Or if your fitter cannot identify the problem, you can abandon autosense altogether. OR abandon your fitter.

I’ve had a few patients over the years who came in from other clinics thinking that they preferred a defeatured manual program, but I don’t think I have any anymore.

But you’re also correct that some fitters out there think that turning all the noise reduction features to max is the solution to everything and it mostly ends up sounding like junk*. I don’t know why they do that. They’re probably not listening. To the patient, sure, but also to the hearing aid. If you just throw on the monitor headphones during and listen to the hearing aid output you can hear a lot of issues. And then, yes, A/B comparisons until you identify the precise issue. Because of you don’t know what the problem actually is, if you just twist knobs and pray, then you still won’t know what it is when the next person comes in with the same complaint.

*And ‘occlusion manager’, my God. Who even put it in there? Belies a complete misunderstanding of what occlusion is and I don’t think people who crank it up really have any idea what it is doing.

@Neville said:

turning all the noise reduction features to max is the solution to everything and it mostly ends up sounding like junk

Very true. Non- noise reduction is simply too primitive for most environments. It degrades speech comprehension as well.

As for Phonak’s Spheric mode, I find that setting it to moderate works well in very dynamic environments like shopping malls where people move around a lot. If I set it to strong in this environment then the AI gets overwhelmed and voices cut in and out.
However, in noisy restaurants where people largely remain in the same spot, strong work well.

In reply to @Elderly

But again, it’s absolutely possible to first fit a patient and end up with really poor basic audibility because of how the device fits on the ear. Turning off features can’t solve that and without you don’t know.

@Raudrive said:

Most people that have Autosense issues are dealing with programming issues.

I’m not against AutoSense per se. It’s just hard to fix chronic fitting issues with a control program as complex as AutoSense. Take it out and see what’s up, and then go from there.

@Elderly said:

I’m not against AutoSense per se. It’s just hard to fix chronic fitting issues with a control program as complex as AutoSense

Autosense is not complicated. Those who don’t follow Target are the ones have issues. I am not sure if you are familiar with Target but it’s pretty straight forward.

Edited

In reply to @Bimodal_user

@Bimodal_user said:

UP is only with cShells.

Logical. I’ve never used UPs, and I hope I won’t have to.

@Bimodal_user said:

I don’t think that assuming upfront that Autosense OS is bad. it is good - assuming upfront that Autosense OS is bad.

The people that have failed functions and have tried endless adjustments need to remove Autosense because it’s a complex auto-control program that easily gets outside the box. Removing it is a good place to start to fix HA outlier problems. If the aids work better without it, then the source of the problem is now known. There are lots of options from there.

Autosense works well for a lot of users, annoys some, and doesn’t help others. It’s not all good or all bad.

In reply to @Raudrive

@Raudrive said:

Autosense is not complicated. Those who don’t follow Target are the ones have issues. I am not sure if you are familiar with Target but it’s pretty straight forward.

I’m a , so yes, I understand Target.

The new ERA chip is faster, processes over 500 million bits of data per second and has more than 70% more onboard ram. It’s so fast and scans so much background data, AutoSense switching can cause volume fluctuations and so much program shifting that it confuses users. As you know, hearing is a partnership between the and the user’s brain. For most people, Autosense is not a problem, but for a few it is.

Yes, AutoSense switching is adjustable. However, removing it from the rotation is a good place to start to fix chronic Sphere i90 problems. Once it’s determined if Autosense is the problem or that it’s not, then it’s decision time.

@Elderly said:

I’m a DIY, so yes, I understand Target

This i question reading your comments. Lack of understanding will create programming issues as you have described.

Are you a past member of this forum?

In reply to @Elderly

@Elderly said:

The new ERA chip is faster, processes over 500 million bits of data per second and has more than 70% more onboard ram. It’s so fast and scans so much background data, AutoSense switching can cause volume fluctuations and so much program shifting that it confuses users.

@Elderly, you generally make some decent points, but I have to push back on this one. Those numbers are pure marketing and mean nothing.

Hearing aid chips are slow! Even the latest ones!

That’s because hearing aids are severely power-constrained. Typically a 20mAh battery has to last for a full day. Consumer earbuds have 60mAh batteries and only need to last ~6 hours.

That means earbuds have a power-budget that’s around 10x larger than hearing aids. And more power means you can run your chip at a higher speed.

For example, Qualcomm’s latest earbud chip has 3 CPU/ cores running at 300MHz and 500MHz and it has a dedicated core on top of that.
(Snapdragon S7 Sound Platforms | Premium Audio Technology | Qualcomm1)

Phonak’s AI chip runs at a meager 50MHz. Starkey’s CPU cores run at 60Mhz. (https://www.onsemi.com/pdf/datasheet/e8310-d.pdf3)

So when Autosense acts weirdly, it’s definitely not because the CPU is too fast.

In reply to @Raudrive

@Raudrive said:

Answer my question. Are you a past member on this forum?

Ha ha , mate I thought he was a bot!

@wtolkien said:

So when Autosense acts weirdly, it’s definitely not because the CPU is too fast.

That’s exactly as I was thinking, actually a lot of variables making this happen!

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