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I just ordered Costco's Sennheiser Sonite Rise. mixed feelings about the experience so far

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Thanks for trying to help!

I clicked around for quite a while, can't find those words exactly, but is this what you're after? Under 'Fine Tuning' I found a pull down for a graph called Real Ear Gain

First is the one the Audiologist did yesterday. she has me set up with the mix of a vented dome on the right and a power dome on the left. As far as I know, the only thing that she did, overtly to me anyway, was to select different domes in the software and run the feedback manager tool

and next was the one form a few weeks back set up with power domes on both sides. On this one the fitter had cranked in some additional headroom

I don't fully understand what I'm looking at here, but generally I get the idea that the amplification in the higher frequencies have been turned down just a bit

and I can't wrap my head around why she would have done that. The original tech had bumped up the high frequencies and my understanding of speech was better...and I went in yesterday telling the audiologist that what he had done seemed close to where it needs to be but I feel like I need just a little bit more....still asking my daughter to repeat herself a little more than I'd like.

and as a side note, I added that I feel like when autosense takes me into most of the modes, the programs feel to me like they're turning down everything too much across the board. She didn't do anything for that second issue as far as I know.

Honestly I think that where the tech had it would be good enough...most people would probably just accept it assuming that's the best it could be. I know it'll never be perfect but I know it could be a little better...

Maybe she was focused so much on the feedback I'm getting, which wasn't a primary complaint for me... but it's the same or maybe even worse than what it was... It's not persistant, but I get it primarily on the left when I wave my hand 6 or 8 inches away from my ear... just a chirp. Driving in the car last night I casually had my left hand up at my temple or something, just subconsciously while I was driving. My wife and daughter asked why I was doing that because they could hear feedback that I didn't even hear!

Edited

Best graph settings for sharing details with audiologists.Here are the ideal graph settings for visualizing the output of hearing aids in Phonak Target. You're correct that insertion gain is now the only option available under the feedback analyzer screen. Are you able to produce a graph for me of your device settings using these graph options?

that was very helpful. With that it took me no time at all to find it!

This is what the technician set up a few weeks ago

and here is what the audiologist set up yesterday

Edited

So what we can tell from the graphs posted is that the feedback manager is limiting the amount of high-frequency gain in order to reduce feedback risk and that this is impacting their ability to make soft unvoiced consonants (circa 4 - 6 kHz) audible for you, particularly for the left ear.

You really need custom earmolds so that the venting can be optimized to trap enough high-frequency gain in while also not fully occluding your ears as power domes do as this blocks your natural hearing where it is it's best which will always hear better naturally than through a hearing aid signal processing path.

An audiologist will generally prioritize feedback elimination first as this stops people from using their aids, but they shouldn't do so at the expense of audibility when there is another solution that can resolve feedback whistling while preserving audibility, in this case custom molds.

Whenever the acoustic coupling of an aid is changed in a significant manner, as it was in this case, real-ear measurement should be repeated to confirm optimal performance. It would've likely demonstrated poorer than optimal performance in this case, prompting a switch to custom earmolds.

thanks for that analysis. Helpful.

If her priority was reducing feedback she got mixed results! Yeah, feedback is a lot better today on my right side than it was...I can only get a burp of it occasionally when cupping my hands over that ear

but on the left I'd have to say that it's probably worse now than it was day before yesterday. It sings even as the things are booting up! Certainly more of it as I wave my hand 6-8 inches away from it.

Anyway, I think that you've maybe confirmed that I need to circle back to what I had requested the day I went in to order these things...get custom molds. I've had so many people tell me that I don't need molds...the original Costco tech, the Costco audilogist at the beginning of the appointment yesterday, the audiologist at the Dr's office, and several participants here on the forum.

I dunno...I suppose maybe I'm an oddball case. Maybe my is wrong (although I've had two recent ones that more or less agree...one by the Costco tech and the other by the audiologist at the ENT's office)

Ugh, I was hopeful that domes would work. They are more comfortable in some ways and don't occlude natural sounds nearly as much. Maybe silicone will be more flexible and comfortable than the acrylic one for my old aids... and maybe if they get a big enough vent then they'll sound a bit better too.

I don't know...a big part of me still wants to trial Oticon, but this lower Costco price is hard to walk away from.... I guess I'll give it the weekend to experience some different situations so I can give the Audi some data, and I'll call Monday to set up an appointment. My Marvel slimtips, as best as I can measure, has vents that are bigger than about 1.55mm and smaller than 1.9mm...maybe 1.75mm? Measured with drill bits that I have. I checked the old fitting for them in Target, and it says 1.2-1.6mm. Anyway, I wonder if maybe something bigger might be better for me if I'm right on the edge of even needing molds....

I wish I knew what I was doing in Target because I have half a mind to put my old slimtips on these new aids to give it a try over the weekend!

@bradw said:

.a big part of me still wants to trial Oticon, but this lower Costco price is hard to walk away from....

From what I've read the updated feedback manager in Oticon Reveal will probably allow you to be fit with domes without feedback if that is what you really want. You may not achieve the gain you need with them though.

If you have existing slimtips that worked why not just ask if you can use them with your trial aids? If they have an acoustic coupling code it is as easy as entering this into the acoustics screen of the software and running the feedback manager and then repeating .

First, Costco has an Oticon product, the Phillips. Try that. Phonak does not provide the best hearing aid for some types of high frequency loss according to Dr Cliff (he wasn’t specific about this) so the new Oticon Reveal may work better for you or the earlier version under the Phillips name at Costco might be an option.

I don’t think Costco is set up to provide the type of premium care you want. It’s hard to walk away from those prices, but you get what you pay for- and your hearing is too important to your life to settle for less.

Seems to me the training of audiologists, USA and here in UK, while brilliant on matters inside the ear, lags in basic audiocraft. Whistling inaudible to user but distressing to neighbour? Then roll off the high end gain to match the hearing curve. Echoing rooms blur speech? Then look at the volume-compression recovery time - it might be too quick. Painful crashes? Maybe the compressor is too slow in attack (can be a design shortcoming). Difficult to understand some voices? It could be a need for more low end, rather than cranking up the top.

In reply to @LawyerFL

thanks for the reminder about the Phillips! I was aware of it but haven't really considered it because those didn't play nicely with my android cell phone.

however, I recently bought a new phone... a Pixel 11...and thanks to your nudge I looked again, It looks like the 9050 will work with my new phone!

And yes I think that you're right about Costco. Since day one I've been rushed with them, even though I've tried to be reasonable. I fully understand that I've only paid a basic price and for that reason I'm trying to go into the appointment prepared to cut to the chase....but with these latest couple of appointments its very clear that they are shortcutting their own procedures.

For that reason, I'm left questioning if I should try the Phillips at Costco just to see, or just give up with them and HOPE that I get better service at the 's office and his audiologist team....

In reply to @ellisonvoice

I think that in some ways it's not at all unlike general practice medicine. Doctors are rushed, doctors are constrained by their corporate policies, doctors may be smart and very well attended, but they have limited time to really read studies and think for themselves, and they are misguided by medical journal studies that have been funded by special interest, and they blindly follow guidelines (such as from diabetes associations, heart associations, etc..)....

And there's the information inertial issue. Common knowledge is presented as fact... and when people hear it enough times or from people or sources of authority, it's beleived. MD's and Audiologists are people too... subject to that same information inertia.

Just the other day in my most recent hearing aid appointment, the audiologist did a few things that had me as an engineer really raising an eyebrow. But picking my battles, and knowing that time is limited, I tried to stay focused on the more important things.

One example.... the audiologist early on in the meeting noticed my wire length and commented that they are too short. She immediately said that she'd change them out so that the receivers could go deeper into the canals. This based on a look from across the room. I can understand the theory behind a longer loser wire allowing for deeper insertion.... but if it's already going in deep enough, do you need a longer wire? Are there unintended consequences that aren't even considered. Could it also go the other way, and let the aid hand too far back behind the ear?

She probably did look a little closer during as the appointment went on, but any checks she did weren't overt. She never measured for wire length, she didn't look from what I could tell if the receivers in deep enough to begin with. Certainly not with an otiscope or closely at all. With the longer wires are they actually going in deeper? Do the longer wires affect how low behind the ear the actual aids/microphones hang?

I honestly thought that the wire length that the original Costco tech selected seemed more appropriate than what I've had through much of my times wearing hearing aids.... it was tucked in nice and tight, less noticeable and more streamlined. Not the loop handles sticking out that I have now. His was based on actual measurement, looking and checking at my initial fitting visit.

To my eye it looked like the front microphone was just about perfect peeking just above the ear. It looked and felt better. And When I put them in it surely feels that they are going in just the same depth. The shorter wires sure did look better

I'm really on the fence and stuck for a decision.

I really want to trial Oticon, because I like their idea of not turning off or down sounds. I've convinced myself that this might really be the overarching problem that I'm struggling with. It's a little scary though (for the lack of a better word) because it seems like it's a totally different ecosystem....I've been a Phonak fanboy for over 7 years now....

I really feel like these Sennheisers could probably give me more, but I'm not sure. If I'm honest they are generally pretty good in most of my life situations, especially since I swapped the left dome for a larger size than what the audiologist put on. It reduced the feedback some (not all), even without re-running the feedback manager...HOWEVER I'm still really struggling to understand my daughter. She has to repeat herself far too often.

a) I could go to Costco and get custom molds for them and go from there

b) I could also try to get these Sennheisers adjusted so that the program is more open like Oticon... reduce or turn off the background noise suppression, or whatever they can do in that regard....

c) I could get the custom molds for the Sennheisers + order a pair of their Phillips as a secondary trial concurrent to trialing the molds

d) I could cut my losses and drop the Sennheisers in favor of trialing the phillips. I'm assuming the 180 day clock would reset at that point, and I could always go back later and get a new pair of the Sennheisers if the Phillips don't work out

e) I could open my bank account and go now to the audiologist at the I visited recently, and trial the Oticon concurrently with these Sennheisers either as they are now or better, with the molds from costco... I'm not really sure what the terms are for the Audiologist's trials... but with this option I'd for sure know. Get the best Oticon offering + presumably get better set-up and support than I'm getting from Costco

....I suppose there are a few more combinations that I could consider, including using my several years old slimtips with the Sennheiser aids. I see that maybe better as something to do while I wait for the new molds to be made. If I must have molds, I really want to explore the idea of silicone (or titanium) for hopefully better comfort, and also with larger vents as it seems that's what the Costco audiologist is thinking....

I guess that I'm hoping that some of you folks here that are smarter than me can help me see a good path to take....

They did my 9's about a year ago. I ordered the 9050's and as soon as I get them I will send the 10's for a rebuild. The price is $135 each. Great to have the spares.

In reply to @bradw

two days ago, after much consideration and reading, I decided that I wanted to call Costco for an appointment. At that appointment I want to do 2 or probably 3 things

a) get these Sennheiser trial aids fitted and set up for use with my old acrylic slimtips. As an experiment, but Primarily as a temporary solution while I wait for b)

b) order a new set of custom silicone molds with a very

c) talk to them about the possibility of ordering Phillips 9050 to try

The receptionist didn't know what sort of appointment to book, so she said that she'd have to get the manager to call me when she comes back in tomorrow.... so I asked well what kind of an appointment would you book to take an impression for a mold? She looked out to the end of October and found no available mold appointments, so she reverted back to having the manager call tomorrow. Maybe she can fit me in, so something.... ok fine, no problem.

While waiting, I ended up doing a lot more reading and online research mostly with chatGPT and Google , and I pivoted my plan. Keep it simple - Skip the molds, at least for now. I've had four professionals tell me I don't need molds. Several other folks here on the forum have said the same. The most recent one (the managing Aud at Costco) changed her tune at the last adjustment...try this new set up, and if it doesn't work come back for molds. Anyway my last few years wearing the molds have felt like a huge compromise anyway, so let's shake out this idea that Oticon can offer more bandwidth for HF + they may not be working so hard to reduce sounds/noise. So now, I want to ask the managing Aud if she thinks their Phillips aids will be a good fit for me, solving the problem of my needing more HF gain and reducing the feedback. I want to run a concurrent trial of the Phillips aids along with the Sennhesiers, at least for a time. I would be open to just returning the Sennheisers, though, if that's what they would prefer. The more I think about the more I'm convinced that I will probably like the "whole room" philosophy that Oticon talks about, rather than Phonak's turn down the noise approach

So yesterday afternoon I still haven't received the call, so I called back. Spoke to the receptionist to tell her that my message and request has pivoted, please pass it along to the manager. Very apologetic, said she passed along my message early in the AM, etc.... Anyway, no call yesterday. We'll see.....

 

 

In the interim, I put my old acrylic molds on these aids. I did not go into Target and reconfigure it at all. The aids are still set up for the domes so I know it's not right, just wanted to see what would happen. The feedback was eliminated of course, but understanding my daughter wasn't better. Maybe a negligible improvement in clarity of the consent sounds, but I still have to ask her to repeat often. So, I switched back to the domes

In reply to @galen

I don't know about the sending older aids back to the manufacturer, but when I got my last hearing test at Costco, I asked the audiologist if she could update the Rexton Trax 42s I have as backup aids. I have been seeing her since I bought those Trax and also through KS9s and KS10s, but still it surprised me a little that she just updated the Traxes for me without a murmur. Of course she's never quoted Costco policy on anything to me in the times I've seen her, but maybe it never came into play.

agreed. Streamed music was much better with molds for sure!

I generally found though that in many situations I was better off without the aids since the molds blocked so much

Not long after starting the trial with these Sennheisers with power domes, I went to a rock concert (Spin Doctors, Gin Blossoms, and Blues Traveler). I was goofing around in the app trying to optimize the sound, and eventually figured out that I was better off to put the aids in my pocket. Granted, it was a rock concert so it was more noise that music, but still... even power domes blocked a lot.

I do need the HF stuff to brighten the sound, but so much was lost

...but then again I don't think that those aids were set up well enough for my needs.

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