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How can I REALLY tell if new hearing aids will help me in noisy environments

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I'm a retired nephrologist (kidney doctor), so I have some experience with caring for the hearing impaired. Best example? I had a 20-something person who worked in Med Tech who had Alport Syndrome (sex linked recessive disorder), who needed to start dialysis when he was in mid 20s. His mom didn't develop kidney failure OR deafness until decades later in her life. The son began dialysis in the mid 2000s. Because, on dialysis, the doctor and patient typically face one another while the treatment is ongoing, and my patient was a superb lip-reader, we had no problems during our interactions in the fairly noisy dialysis treatment center. By the time he received a renal transplant, we were well into the "Great Recession," and medical care was changing because of the Obama administration's sponsorship of a $23 billion investment in electronic medical records. Postoperatively, when he began seeing me in my office the setting was much different—doctor "hiding" behind giant flat screen monitors, struggling with new technology. I knew by then that my own hearing was becoming impaired, but I'd not explored treatment.

In any event, with us not seeing each other as I was typing while asking questions, our visits were painful. Then one day he came in, I asked him a question, and he answered immediately. I literally jumped up from my chair and walked briskly the few steps needed to see AND hear what was different. He had just acquired new ReSound -enabled , and he demonstrated for me how they enhanced his ability to talk on the phone, to watch TV, and to carry on conversations with multiple people.

Almost immediately, I made an appointment to see an audiologist, who did extensive testing, recommended devices from Phonak, but complied with MY insistence that I acquire those almost magical devices from ReSound.

Turns out they were NOT magical for me—yes, I heard things I'd not been able to, but the sounds were metallic, not natural. So, she fitted me with current Phonak aids, which pleased me no end because I was a cyclist and Levi Leipheimer was the premier rider for Phonak's World Tour cycling team.

Things went well for a few years, but then I was involved in a cycling accident where one of my hearing aids disappeared. By then, Costco was selling Phonak hearings labeled as "Kirkland Signature," so I obtained those at probably half what I would have paired for identical devices marketed as "Phonak."

Of course, Sonova's relationship with Costco went south, and for a few years they carried NO Phonak or other Sonova-manufactured devices, and just in the past year my ability to understand my spouse in noisy restaurants has deteriorated. Given the laudatory reviews of the Phonak Eon Sphere devices, I'm wondering if I should try them. My Costco hearing aid dispenser told me my had not deteriorated much, tried reprogramming my KS-10 devices and switching from open to , but that didn't help. Higher frequency sounds became loud (AND metallic) but speech discrimination didn't improve. Worse, I had to leave my hearing aids at home when on my bike because the device in my right ear whistled annoyingly in the wind and ALWAYS emitted a less obnoxious scratchy sound. The latter has improved by changing to still different domes (still "closed," but with a little nipple at their tips). At my f/u visit, she made real ear measurements, and she offered the opinion that she doesn't think any of the new technology would help.

I signed up for a "free 45 day trial of Oticon Reveal HAs but was dissuaded immediately by the $4700 up-front cost (refundable in 45 days if I was not impressed). That's different from a "free" trial.

I don't have audiograms to share (probably could get copies). I'm wondering if I should perhaps try the new Phonaks with the best rating, treating my wife to several noisy dinners, and swapping HAs in the restaurant. The hearing aid tech selling Oticon (NOT an audiologist) told me the price was a 40% discount from retail, but the HAs she suggested were Oticon Intent, not the Reveal models.

Looking for advice…

13 people in this conversation18 min readJump to latest

There's only one way to know if a pair of will work for you. You've got to try them.

I wish Phonak still supported a world tour team. Or any pro (bike racing) team.

I think that’s the fatal flaw in purchasing hearing aids.

Take over the counter hearing aids. One brand will let you do a hearing test. Then set the low power hearing aids up. The ear buds have been used by people with much less hearing aids than we have

I had Paradise P90 hearing aids that the specialist could use myPhonak APP to make adjustments a distance away.

Why couldn’t the specialist make adjustments to refine them and set them up remotely in a noisy environment where I had trouble?

You could try using the sound comparison tool on hearadvisor.com, but Oticon Reveal recordings are not yet available. Also, while you may have a preference between devices the only way to be sure is to trial devices yourself.

Both of these devices will have superior performance in wind noise vs what you've trialed before. The only thing that might be better for a cyclist is a Resound device with a microphone in ear receiver, where the loudspeaker has a microphone on it that the hearing aid will use in preference to the device-level microphones in windy environments, the in-ear microphone being sheltered from the wind in your ear canal. There is a limited fitting range for this receiver and they aren't suitable for very waxy ears.

In reply to @DaveL

Those instant remote adjustments are available with Signia hearing aids via the Signia Assistant.

I don't know if Phonak or other manufacturers have a similar feature.

In reply to @jimrobertson

@jimrobertson said:

Worse, I had to leave my hearing aids at home when on my bike because the device in my right ear whistled annoyingly in the wind

I got a pair of “ear gear” covers to go over my p-90s when winter wind was bothering me on walks. Really helped a lot. They are soft fabric sleeves that slip over the body of the aids.

WH

In reply to @jimrobertson

Okay - a LOT to unpack here. The good news is that there are some helpful devices out there to try out (or even "trial" and return if they don't work!) to see if they help hear conversation in NOISY places. Know first: this issue is the Holy Grail for ALL of us hearing challenged folks. I honestly don't think any single device is 100% going to work a miracle. So.....

I use Phonak Lumity Life 312 battery aids. I have the same model in rechargeable, but these 312s are a few years newer and gave me better speech clarity. My shows my cinderblock ears NEED the help. I set up all my aids with a dedicated Speech in Loud Noise program that I can use. I also have the Roger On In V2 paired/connected to my 312s, and have done comprehension comparisons in noisy restaurants. Granted, every person will have to find out what works best for themselves.

I actually find that using the Roger does NOT work for me. It picks up too much ambient sound like plates clattering and folks at other tables - even in the FOCUS format. If I put my aids into Speech in Loud Noise, that works pretty good for the NOISIEST places where it really cuts out background sound. But, these 312s do an impressive job of just automatically adjusting in noisy places (the gym, restaurant, traffic, mall, etc.,) so I don't have to do one thing! Just wear them.

These 312s are way down the food chain from Phonak's newest devices. So I'd start there if I was you. Do a trial set up with a Roger if that's possible, and get a Speech in Loud Noise (and look into other) program on your aids. Let us know what works for you.

Thanks SO much for that. The restaurant scenario is worst for me. I have Costco KS10s, which are the equivalent of Phonak Audéo aids of 4-5 years vintage. They do have a "speech in noise" program that my Costco provider has tweaked a bit. It DOES reduce the annoying jumble of sound in noisy restaurants a little bit, (I have NO idea why upscale restaurants almost ALWAYS have so many highly reflective surfaces AND overly barely recognizable audio tracks onto all that existing noise), but I don't find it easier to hear my wife at the table. My query is primarily whether the addition of "dual processing" is a game changer for many wearers for that specific scenario.

My other complaint (the HAs hissing from wind noise when I'm outdoors on my road bicycle) is solved simply by leaving my HAs at home. I hear cars and trucks approaching from the rear and sensors on my bike give me warnings of their approach as well, so the HAs are just annoying in that setting.

And, while I might find Aurocast interesting when visiting museums, I've not found it available in enough places to CHOOSE my next HAs because of its presence of absence. I can enjoy symphonic concerts quite well with my "antique" devices.

Does AI-assisted "speech in noise" make a qualitative difference for you in restaurants

Single choice · 12 votes

Vote counts update as members respond.

Edited

Back again ... a properly setup Jabra 30 (Intelligent Focus set in the fitting software, Hear In Noise program selected) the Resound solution often works well for me in some very loud restaurants - if the people I want to listen to are directly in dfront of me or, say, 25 degrees off access (that number is a SWAG).

Often, not always. Beam-forming is a big part of Resound's approach. Phonak takes a different approach, I believe.

I'm just one datapoint, though.

I went for LEA and for future possibilities. Resound's TV Streamer+ and Multi-mic+ can be used by any Auracast capable , for example. Some TVs, for example, broadcast Auracast, so if I ever get one of them, I'll be able to listen without a separate streamer. I'm hoping for a low priced effective, omni-directional table mic that is Auracast capable. Etc., etc., etc.

In reply to @jimrobertson

For a long winded post it was entertaining and through, thanks.

At the end of your post I came up with you just need to try different aids to see which you like best. That goes for the fitter/audiologist as well.

Without an we are very limited to help you. Just rambling you might say. The aids have to be set up properly and be sized correctly for your hearing loss, very important. Without the basics fitting aids properly all the rest is in vain.

As far as trying different high quality aids Costco is hard to beat. Find a fitter you like that is knowledgeable and that just might give you the knowledge you need to find the right hearing aids.

Good luck with this.

In reply to @jimrobertson

@jimrobertson said:

My query is primarily whether the addition of AI "dual processing" is a game changer for many HA wearers for that specific scenario.

The Phonak Sphere (either new Eon or older Infinio Ultra) is generally rated best for noise reduction in these scenarios

@jimrobertson said:

My other complaint (the HAs hissing from wind noise when I'm outdoors on my road bicycle)

The new Phonak Eon has improved wind noise reduction function

As regards the , would that REALLY help answer my specific question; i.e., just HOW effective these -enhanced algorithms are in clarifying speech in noisy environments? My sense was that the most reliable metric I could get on that score is "user experience." The problem with the "45 day free trials" is that they're NOT really free, and I certainly can understand why not. One item that suggests that they're NOT the game-changer the manufacturers suggest is that when I went both to Costco and to a Signia-linked provider (but NOT an audiologist) and made it VERY clear that my single main complaint was understanding speech in noise, with NO comments about what I was willing to pay for better experience, neither of them pushed those "latest and greatest" devices (hence my "poll.)" If seeing my audiogram would help others offer an opinion regarding how helpful these devices REALLY might be for me, I'll obtain and post a copy. And, despite almost a decade of experience WEARING hearing aids, I have no idea whether the Real Ear Measurements done at Costco a few weeks ago are predictive of the answer to that question.

Costco simply would not 'push' the 'latest and greatest' -assisted 'speech in noise' devices as they do not supply a 'Sphere' capable . Their nearest device is equivalent to the non-Sphere Infinio Ultra R i.e. without the based noise reduction circuit

In reply to @jimrobertson

@jimrobertson said:

As regards the audiogram, would that REALLY help answer my specific question; i.e., just HOW effective these AI-enhanced algorithms are in clarifying speech in noisy environments?

People with better hearing, particularly in the lower frequencies, are usually fit with more open fittings — open domes and the like. These allow outside sounds to come in to prevent the feeling of occlusion. They also allow in noise in the party or noisy restaurant/bar setting. This greatly reduces the effectiveness of the noise removal hearing aids like Phonak spheres can perform. Not a shock that people say they didn’t help. So, that is one reason you are asked…. If your hearing is really bad, well, …. Then maybe it still won’t help. You might be asked if you’ve had or considered a eval.

WH

In reply to @jimrobertson

@jimrobertson said:

If seeing my audiogram would help others offer an opinion regarding how helpful these devices REALLY might be for me, I'll obtain and post a copy.

Tonal , and, if possible, bony thresholds in that same audiogram and in quiet percentage. Form each ear separately and binaurally.

There are many variables making final success with Spheric in noise processing. The most important is being meticulous in basics like:

  1. Not too weak receiver - there is important role of headroom and balanced maximum values.

  2. Not too open earpiece - the best is usually custom earmold deep placed with relatively small diameter of vent. Many people lose here because they are unable to bear and get used to the occlusion effect. Deep placement of earpieces solves that problem greatly, but many can't make deep silicone impressions necessary for that type of custom earpieces.

  3. (less important, but worth mentioning) - not too short receiver wire for proper microphones alignment - as horizontally as possible.

  4. 4. - AI can be useless simply because someone's high frequency gains is too small - he/she is underfitter in that frequencies, crucial for speech understanding in noise and consonats differentiation.

  5. Own WRS score - if very low, even the best won't help, only .

And there is also patience necessary and the ability to survive temporary inconveniences, such as perceiving sound as "too tinny", because I cannot overemphasise the role of high frequencies in speech understanding in noise.

Thanks for that. I'm still learning the forum conversation interface and at first thought you were using an underlined abbreviation () incorrectly, because when I clicked on it, up popped a message saying "Wrong in Post," accompanied by the word "Report." It took me one or two similar clicks for me to learn I was being given an option to REPORT an incorrectly used term, NOT that the usage itself was incorrect!

In any event, I do know that my word recognition scores were excellent except when words were buried in noise, which to me suggests the might be helpful. Perhaps what I need to do is (given that I'm familiar with the Phonak app subset available to Costco "Kirkland Signature" ), is find an AUDIOLOGIST whose practice sells the Phonak Eon Spheres and ask him or her whether they think those would help me.

But, I'm still curious about accumulated user experience on this issue.

In reply to @jimrobertson

I have nf2 and the speech in noise program or the phonak infinio 70 and phonak sphere hearing aids did not help in solving speech recognition in noisy environments as speech recognition is mostly a nerve problem is what I have been advised.

yes. With all the Phonak options I tried out I could not fix the comprehension in noisy environments. Even I "heard things I'd not been able to, but the sounds were metallic, not natural". I couldn't comprehend 50% of what my wife and children say in restaurants and I feel the normal ear is better in restaurants for me.

In reply to @jimrobertson

@jimrobertson said:

my word recognition scores were excellent except when words were buried in noise, which to me suggests the AI might be helpful.

Exactly, except very rare situation when someone has much .

@jimrobertson said:

But, I'm still curious about accumulated user experience on this issue.

For me, it's life-changing in noisy conditions. It's a pity that technology didn't existed at least 10-15 years ago.

However I have P receiver with Unitron thick silicone power domes, which give much desired earplug effect.

Despite I had good outcomes with UP receiver in cShell canal custom earmold with 1 mm diameter vent I wait to cShell with no vent to maximize noise filtering and has maxxed feedback threshold.

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