my guess is that they are emphasizing some frequencies but just not trying to shut them down????
Regardless, the more I read about otocon's approach the moreI think that I might actually like it better. I've been a phonak fanboy for years. Loved my Marvel M-90-13T aids. Not such a fan since they took away the replaceable zinc-air options, but still. Probably the biggest advantage (besides the android connectivity) to me is their auto sense. Before I bought them 7 years ago or whatever it was, I trialed the Oticon...Opn I think it was called. My memory was that I actually liked the sound better, and they were much better in wind
But, I hated that I had to manually select programs for different situations
I'm spoiled by auto sense, and I pretty much refuse to play the game of switching programs.
That said, I think that I'm getting that the Oticon aids of today don't have an "auto sense", but they do adapt to different situations. The thing I'm not clear on is how necessary it really is to switch programs for different situations? Does the and this idea of clarifying the speech adapt well enough so that program switching is rarely if ever needed?
I am lucky enough to own both the Oticon Intent and Phonak Sphere.
In theory, I agree, it seems that Autosense is something that Phonak has, and that Oticon doesn't have, and we could conclude that manually switching programs is a pain if one owns the Oticon. In practice, I have very rarely had to switch programs with the Oticons, as the general program covers 90%-95% of situations. There are 3 programs that I may switch to with Oticon. Firstly, "Speech in Noise", if I am totally desperate and want an extra 2dB of noise suppression. Usually, if it is a very very noisy situation, this is of no use at all, and the lack of narrow focus in this program makes it worthless to switch to it. Then there is "MyMusic", which I may switch to if I want more bass, but honestly, with the general program, the bass is good. And thirdly, there is "Comfort", which kind of makes noisy situations more pleasant, but I've found that it doesn't really give any more audibility.
So in that sense, I don't miss Autosense at all.
With respect to your first point, about emphasising more frequencies. I assume you are talking about Oticon. Yes, with Oticon I feel that the high frequencies and gain, are permanently on; whereas with Phonak, I do not feel that, and I have been annoyed in the past where a couple of programs, particularly "speech in noise" and "comfort and noise" have reduced the gain, to the extent that I cannot hear what is being said. In the last 6 weeks, my normally sedentary lifestyle has changed somewhat, as I am training to be a teacher in a further education college. I also took my daughter abroad to a university where there were a lot of young people around and the conversation got very demanding in a lot of demanding situations.
To give some background as well, in the last year I took on a language class, where I wore the Oticon Intents and I found that they amplified everything around me to the extent that I could not hear who I was sitting next to. As a result I bought the Phonak Spheres and a Roger, to try and fix this problem.
My conclusion is that the Phonaks are superior in loud noise situations where the Sphere kicks in, and one can make use of the narrow band directionality. With the Oticon, the noise suppression is weaker and there is no or very little suppression from the sides, so if you are talking to somebody one or one, or one on two and there is other ambient loud noise, it becomes very difficult.
However, as discussed, the problem with the Phonaks can be these "speech in noise" and "comfort in noise" programs, where the noise levels are less than what triggers the Sphere DNN. In these cases, I find that the high frequency gain is reduced and one is left all at sea. This of course, can probably be solved by (and I have altered the programs already in Target), upping the gain in those programs. But it took me a while to realise what was going on, and in a lot of situations I felt totally deaf in a way that I would not have been with the Oticons.
So if you are somebody who maybe can cope with loud noise, because your test is good, then I would definitely recommend the Oticons (new Reveal), but if not, and you need to hear people in really demanding situations, maybe with the help of an , then I would recommend Phonak. I swap both aids on a daily basis. In college I wear the Phonaks; at home I wear the Oticons.
In theory, I agree, it seems that Autosense is something that Phonak has, and that Oticon doesn't have, and we could conclude that manually switching programs is a pain if one owns the Oticon.
I'm curious to know what @cvkemp thinks about this. He also has Oticon Intent 1 and Phonak Audeo Infinio 90 Ultra.
With respect to your first point, about emphasising more frequencies. I assume you are talking about Oticon. Yes, with Oticon I feel that the high frequencies and gain, are permanently on; whereas with Phonak, I do not feel that
What diameter of vent and receiver power do you have?
Phonak - UP receiver, cShell with 0.6mm or no vent?
Oticon - 105 receiver with similar vent?
In my my case, I felt that UP receiver with no vent is the best possible option.
I tested UP in titanium cShell with 1 mm diameter vent (smaller is impossible in titaniums), and that was too large bore which let in too much unprocessed noise through the opening.
Currently I am with P receiver with power domes (from Unitron, which has thicker silicone flanges).
I swap both aids on a daily basis. In college I wear the Phonaks; at home I wear the Oticons.
I am really curious about testing Oticon Reveal 1 for quiet or low intensity noise.
However, given that I have maxxed feedback threshold so that I can get full potential of Phonak UP receiver I started to doubt if I will get more high frequency gain from Oticon Reveal 1, given that, IIRC one time ago, @Um_bongo has said that all manufacturers receivers comes from Knowles, so they're basically the same (coorect me if I am wrong).
With respect to the power, both are 105dB (UP Receiver) with a small vent. The Phonak vent is tiny, maybe 1mm. The Oticon vent slightly bigger, maybe 2mm.
With respect to the high frequency gain, I hear high frequencies to the same extent, that’s not the issue. The issue is with the Phonak, I found that the gain was being reduced in certain environments - comfort in noise and speech in noise. I am actually seeing Matthew Allsop in London in late October to get done and I will discuss this then.
The issue is with the Phonak, I found that the gain was being reduced in certain environments - comfort in noise and speech in noise.
That's only programming issue. I deliberately have made Comfort in Noise quieter. I found that Autosense OS 7.0 changes that fot Speech in Noise quite quickly...
both are 105dB (UP Receiver) with a small vent. The Phonak vent is tiny, maybe 1mm. The Oticon vent slightly bigger, maybe 2mm.
YMMV, but for me it's quite large, even 1mm get much unwanted unprocessed noise compared to my power domes. If you're a DIYer and like to experiment, you can try no vent option. Look at articles in my post:
@Um_bongo has said that all manufacturers receivers comes from Knowles, so they're basically the same (coorect me if I am wrong).
From a list of few thousand, with different sizes, shapes, impedances, input types, coil configurations, different peak resonance, built in class D amps. All sorts variables that different engineering teams specify.
So they could well be common (or at least be based on the same ‘motor’), but may have manufacturer specific refinements.
Haven't had a chance to try the new Eon or Reveal yet, but comparing the previous gen—Intent vs. Sphere—I personally think Intent wins on features. (I just couldn't stand how Sphere uses the hearing aid mic to pick up my own voice during phone calls—it’s super annoying in public or on transit. Also, since Eon already supports , why didn't they just include Bluetooth / Unicast at the same time?)
As for high noise, Sphere definitely handles it better than Intent, though honestly, neither does much in extremely noisy places anyway...
What I really want to know is how Signia Max compares to these two. Sphere's 'block out all noise' mode works better in loud environments, but during my testing, it misjudged things quite a few times—it kept turning down the person I actually wanted to hear and boosting random people nearby instead. From what I’ve read online, Sphere still relies mostly on to decide what's relevant (basically assuming whatever sound is loudest/clearest is what you want to hear), while where you're actually facing doesn't seem to matter much.
According to Signia's marketing stuff, it can track and boost up to 3 speakers at once. Its OVP and overall processing are totally different from the last gen—this time it identifies the closest voice as the wearer, which makes me think it factors in distance. If that's true, does it mean that in group conversations, it looks at both distance and SNR to figure out which 3 voices to boost and suppress? Just my own theory, though!
Sphere's 'block out all noise' mode works better in loud environments, but during my testing, it misjudged things quite a few times—it kept turning down the person I actually wanted to hear and boosting random people nearby instead.
Perhaps you have too long wire? Sometimes it should be shorter to make both mics in the aligned in horizontal line parallel to the ground.
For example, to my surprise, after measurement with my ruler, according to the Phonak table, I should have #0 wire length. I bought it and I have never the problems you described.
What type of domes do you have? Or vent diameter in case of earmold?
No. I don't think Phonak Eon Support Unicast. Unicast is one of two main modes under the standard, another mode is . From what I read Phonak Eon use hearing aid as the mic on phone call, and no way to switch to phone mic. As such, it is likely Phonak Eon still using Classic phone profile on phone calling.
I have no idea for wire length and vent size: I upgraded from Marvel 50 and get the trial unit from the same service provider. It is the only authorized Phonak distributor in my area. I use custom mold and they made a new mold for my trial, free of charge. I think the audiologists are well trained with Phonak hearing aid as they are the sole and exclusive distributor of Phonak in my area.
I am not alone on this problem: you may find some users on reddit and even posts on this forum complain about this. I told my audiologist about this issue and he said I could adjust it through the app and see if it can improve. But it don't have much differences.
Oticon Reveal was announced only this past Aug 11 and was available starting Aug 24th. Hardly enough time to form a general consensus. I would offer a simple speculation. If you have preferred Oticon or Phonak in the past then you will probably prefer Oticon or Phonak now.
I'm trying out the Oticon Reveal. I previously had Oticon opn which are about 6 years and 3 generations old, so I notice a big improvement. Most of my conversation is in relatively quite settings so the greater clarity of Oticon in this setting was more important. I was at the gym this morning and 2 woman had a conversation quietly 3m away to my right. I was very surprised to pick it up clearly and I think they were equally surprised when I joined in! My wife is continuing to talk to me 2 rooms away and I can now hear her, which unfortunately will only encourage her!
also to anyone else, especially in the reveal or the Verit....
do you find that you manually switch programs with your Oticons, or do they pretty much just work everywhere?
such as entering a restaurant or a church or for listening to music.
I'm a longtime Phonak Autosense fanboy, but I'm seriously starting to get cracks in my loyalty and now I'm wondering if I should give Oticon another try
I've been wearing Oticons for a good few years now, after using Phonak before that. With my Intents, I mostly keep them on the main program (like 95% of the time) and have a dedicated program for my guitars. Unless you have any very specific needs, such myself with my guitars or my headphones, I'd say a well-adjusted main program is all you need with them.
Its been a month now since I started using the Reveal 1s. I really like them and I do find voices more clear and easier to understand. Last night my wife and I were at a restaurant where they had a woman singing and, while i confirmed with my wife she was not loud (to a person with normal hearing), I could hear her sing while maintaining a conversation with my wife.
Surprisingly there are some sounds that I did not hear before that now I can hear, mostly around device chimes (e.g. in the car, the TV when it goes on, etc.) I attribute that to the fact that the context must be trained in those sounds and able to separate them from the general noise reduction in the of regular noise.
I must admit that initially i thought some voices were loud but now after a month my brain must have adjusted and things feel normal.
Connectivity has not been an issue and I'm happy with the MFI performance (I am an iPhone user) which is not worse than before and maybe a little better than with the Intents in terms of range and drop outs.
I do have the music program and speech in noise configured but I don't use them much. I'm on the General program 99% of the time.
In my experience, overall, they are an improvement over the Intents 1s. I would not consider the improvement massive but going from the previous technology model to the next one, within the same manufacturer line, improvements are usually incremental. I should add that the cost equation is an individual thing and, as I mentioned earlier, i had a unique opportunity to get these before by previous insurance expired.
Last night my wife and I were at a restaurant where they had a woman singing and, while i confirmed with my wife she was not loud (to a person with normal hearing), I could hear her sing while maintaining a conversation with my wife.
I find it rude to converse while an entertainer is performing, but other than that, thanks for the update!
I'm nearing the 3 year mark with all Intents & purposes of Revealing something new!
Poland
Hot Springs Village, Arkansas
Wales, UK
