Bee Venom Theropy (BVT) for hearing loss

@Buck101 said:

To each their own, I mean if this person has made up their mind to do it then they are going to do it. (and it sure looks like he/she has) I believe the question the person asked was if anyone had a good or bad experience trying this, not to be ridiculed for trying it. It’s kind of appalling how much people tear people down on here for trying anything to fix their hearing, whether it be a bee treatment or a hearing aid brand that you don’t support. I thought the purpose of this forum was for support, not for ridicule or to make someone feel incompetent for trying anything and everything to hear. There have been times when I have said I’d give my left arm if I could hear properly, and I was pretty confident when I said it. We all want to hear better, or help people hear better on this forum, so don’t knock someones idea, because there are always negatives to doing anything. Warnings such as make sure your not allergic, and watch out for anaphylactic shock are great but making fun of someone who is just trying to get their hearing back, that’s just sad.

Buck, I disagree. People need to be discouraged from doing risky, dangerous things that have no chance of working. Saying we all support you but be careful is not doing the person any favors. Besides doing harm to themselves they could also encourage someone else to do it. It’s not compassionate to let someone attempt something dangerous.

I think we all know the risks although I do think the riskiness has been understated. But, to think this type of thing is worth the risk you would have to believe one of three things, that bee stings on the body will somehow 1) resurrect dead or missing hair cells, 2) grow new hair cells, or 3) somehow bypass the need for hair cells in the ear (assuming SNHL).

Yes I have been here for a month, but I’ve dealt with hearing loss my whole life, and when I see someone getting laughed at for an idea that gives them hope it upsets me. Why go out of your way to discourage someone? I have done my research on this topic and there are a lot of supporters, and there are a lot of people who don’t believe in it, but it doesn’t give you the right to ridicule someone for their opinion. I’m not passing judgement, I’m making a well needed observation. After reading through a lot of this forum I see senseless squabbling, personal attacks, ridicule, and a whole lot of nonsense. It seems like there are some users on here that feel if you don’t agree with them, then there is one of 3 conclusions, you’re wrong, you’re stupid, or you’re spam. I just don’t see a reason to do all of this fighting when its supposed to be a support site. I do see support from most members, but there are the stubborn hard headed and aggressive posters that make this forum lose credibility. How am I supposed to take someone seriously when in another thread all you have done is ridicule someone for their opinion. It’s immature. I do appreciate the advice from everyone, and the differing opinions. It puts perspective on many topics, but the malicious discontent of one another is cruel and pedantic. If someone has the courage to post, ask for help, or speak up about a topic we as a group should not attack them. You can be supportive and disapprove without making fun. Just because someone is new to a forum doesn’t mean I’m less knowledgeable, it just means I recently decided to start posting my opinions, thoughts, and advice on a forum for support, assistance, and those that have questions I can answer or HELP with. After all that’s the basis of a forum like this one. HELP

@Don said:

Buck, I disagree. People need to be discouraged from doing risky, dangerous things that have no chance of working. Saying we all support you but be careful is not doing the person any favors. Besides doing harm to themselves they could also encourage someone else to do it. It’s not compassionate to let someone attempt something dangerous.

I think we all know the risks although I do think the riskiness has been understated. But, to think this type of thing is worth the risk you would have to believe one of three things, that bee stings on the body will somehow 1) resurrect dead or missing hair cells, 2) grow new hair cells, or 3) somehow bypass the need for hair cells in the ear (assuming SNHL).

It’s not so much the discouraging that bothers me. Its the way people are going about discouraging. You can say you don’t think its a good idea without making fun of someone or making them feel or sound dumb. Just because its non traditional, or different doesn’t make it a joke. That’s the point I’m trying to make. There are classier ways to say you don’t agree with someone rather than jokes at someones expense or personal insults.

I completely agree with buck. It has happened to me so I know what you are saying. Thank you for speaking out. You may not have been here very long but I like your ideas.

frastNH,
Just because you didn’t have an allergic reaction from being stung years ago doesn’t mean you won’t have an allergic reaction this time. So just to be safe have someone with you in case you have an allergic reaction or go into shock. better to be safe than sorry.

@Buck101 said:

To each their own, I mean if this person has made up their mind to do it then they are going to do it. (and it sure looks like he/she has) I believe the question the person asked was if anyone had a good or bad experience trying this, not to be ridiculed for trying it. It’s kind of appalling how much people tear people down on here for trying anything to fix their hearing, whether it be a bee treatment or a hearing aid brand that you don’t support. I thought the purpose of this forum was for support, not for ridicule or to make someone feel incompetent for trying anything and everything to hear. There have been times when I have said I’d give my left arm if I could hear properly, and I was pretty confident when I said it. We all want to hear better, or help people hear better on this forum, so don’t knock someones idea, because there are always negatives to doing anything. Warnings such as make sure your not allergic, and watch out for anaphylactic shock are great but making fun of someone who is just trying to get their hearing back, that’s just sad.

I’m sorry you feel this way.

It’s not about making fun or mocking you. For me personally, I was trying to give you the best advice based on science and evidence.

No one wants to have a hearing loss, but some charlatans try to exploit the problem you have with folklore, magic, and false promises. So genuinely I believe that a person with an agenda is victimizing people who are hard of hearing, selling them a bag of magic beans (or bees :rolleyes: ) and asking them to engage in a risky and painful procedure with ZERO chance of success.

And yes, I said zero. Find me a single Ear Nose and Throat specialist who believes this will work. Find me a doctor of Audiology who believes this will work. Or any real medical doctor that matter.

The claims are very dubious and all but completely refuted for MS suffers, and I can almost see the logic behind such claims. But for a permanent sensorineural hearing loss, forget it.

It’s not that I am being a skeptic, or criticizing you for your life choices, it is about offering sane and sensible advice for the hard of hearing community. That’s what I do for a living. I hate to see this lunacy take hold in America and have my patients show up for their hearing test with a bunch of bee stings, that they actually paid to receive.

@seb said:

frastNH,
Just because you didn’t have an allergic reaction from being stung years ago doesn’t mean you won’t have an allergic reaction this time. So just to be safe have someone with you in case you have an allergic reaction or go into shock. better to be safe than sorry.

Allergies are a ‘funny’ thing too. My wife has them, and was being treated by an allergy doctor a few years ago. They inject you with tiny amounts of substances to improve your tolerance. She had had several of these injections, and then one day, same injection, same clinic and her body went into anaphylaxis and she collapsed a few minutes after getting the shot. She needed an immediate shot of epinephrine and to be revived and stabilized by doctors. If she had left the office and gotten in her car, she would have died for sure, but thankfully she was still in the waiting room when she collapsed. There was a window of less than a few minutes to save her life.

Keep in mind this was a highly controlled treatment, administered under lab conditions in a doctors office.

With bee venom, you are talking about a known poison, and a poison known for causing allergic reaction. With direct bee sting ‘treatment’ you are assuming what the dosage of poison is, which could vary by bee. And most people even if they have been stung in the past, do not know if their body’s system has changed, and few people have received multiple bee stings in close succession, which may have an entirely different response by the body than a single sting.

So add to all this the complete lack of any credible evidence, a lack of positive scientific study, the existence of negative scientific study, the absurdity of the concept (if you had seen what a damaged cochlea looks like under an electron microscope you would better understand the absurd notion of growing back hair cells with poison), it all adds up to a fruitless exploration. Peddled by con men and whackos who have a vested interest in pushing this kind of nonsense on unsuspecting people.

Frankly, as a hearing professional, I am offended that the hard of hearing community are being victimized by this con trick. Next they’ll be telling you one of those stupid balance bracelets they sell in the mall (also a con trick by the way) will restore hearing; but at least that wouldn’t hurt you.

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this weekOdds and Ends

May 23, 2005
Bee Venom Therapy
A stinging endorsement

My experience may be exceptional, but I’ve found the several bee stings I’ve received over the years to be rather unpleasant—even after remembering my favorite things, I still felt pretty bad. So when a reader wrote to tell me about a treatment for such conditions as arthritis and multiple sclerosis (MS) that involves voluntarily stinging oneself with bees, I must admit I found the whole idea rather creepy and off-putting. Although this alternative therapy has not yet proven itself in widespread clinical trials, quite a few people swear by it, insisting that the benefits far outweigh the pain. And even some doctors are trying it with their patients. I feel obliged to insert the usual “don’t try this at home” and “your mileage may vary” disclaimers, but though the jury is officially still out, an increasing body of evidence suggests that there just may be something to this weird notion after all.

A Little Jab’ll Do Ya
Numerous poisons can—in small enough quantities and under the right conditions—produce beneficial effects. So it’s entirely plausible that the same is true of bee venom, or at least some of its components, even though its main purpose is to protect the bees by inflicting pain. Bee venom therapy is a subset of apitherapy, the medicinal use of any substances created by honeybees—including royal jelly and honey, each of which is already known to have some health benefits. Researchers have discovered a number of very interesting substances in bee venom—most prominently, melittin, a powerful anti-inflammatory agent. This gives some credence to the anecdotal reports that beekeepers who were stung repeatedly experienced a reduction in the pain and swelling of arthritis.

Perhaps the most interesting application of bee venom is in treating the symptoms of MS. Some patients have reported startling improvements in their condition, and although doctors are quick to point out that bee venom is not a cure, patients frequently exhibit increased stability and mobility, as well as reduced spasms. In addition to arthritis and MS, bee venom therapy has also been used with some reported success in treating a wide range of other conditions, including post-herpetic neuralgia, fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, tendonitis, high blood pressure, scarring, asthma, post-operative pain, and even hearing loss.

No Pain, No Pain Relief
But let’s be clear about this: bee venom therapy, as usually practiced, hurts. The standard procedure is to remove a live bee from its hive (or a bottle) with a pair of tweezers, hold it next to the skin, wait for it to sting, and repeat. (Sometimes ice or a local anesthetic is used to reduce the pain a bit.) Depending on the condition, patients may receive multiple stings at a time, several times a week, for weeks, months, or in some cases, years. The sites of the stings normally turn red, swell up, and become itchy, just as you’d expect. And although some patients find this a minor annoyance compared to the more serious symptoms that are relieved, others have to discontinue the treatment because it’s just too painful.

In order to deal with both the pain and the inconvenience of keeping and handling live bees, bee venom has also been made available in numerous other forms, such as an injectable solution, ointments, capsules, and drops. From what I’ve read, injectable bee venom approaches live stings in potency but also in pain; other forms appear to be somewhat less effective.

Stinging Criticism
Despite the cottage industry that has sprung up around bee venom therapy and reports from a great many satisfied stingees, the medical establishment in the United States considers it an unproven—and possibly dangerous—practice. Most seriously, about 1% of the population has a severe allergic reaction to bee stings that can, in extreme cases, result in death. When bee stings are administered by lay practitioners, the danger is increased, and yet relatively few doctors are willing to perform the procedure.

A few small studies are underway to determine the safety and effectiveness of bee sting therapy for specific conditions. But one of the problems in performing a proper, rigorous, double-blind study is that a placebo must be used in a control group, and it’s difficult to find an inert substance that causes the same pain and skin reaction as bee venom. Still, some of the preliminary test results are encouraging, and everyone’s hope is that the particular substance or substances in bee venom that produce the desirable effects can eventually be isolated and administered without serious pain. In the meantime, people with treatable conditions but a low tolerance for stings must ask themselves: “To bee, or not to bee?” —Joe Kissell

And with that I am moving on.

Boy when I say something negative people line up to jump all over me. When I try to do the right thing and apologize and be helpful everything gets silent. Now I know how Toyota feels.:rolleyes:

The power of the mind is an incredible thing…and I have witnessed improvements in hearing (although I can count them on one hand) for some individuals where there should be none over the past 13 years…Can I explain why?? Nope…but there it is. I am completely open to the fact that the human body is an incredible and miraculous thing and that even though we profess to know everything about it, we truly do not.

That said, SNHL is in 99.9% of cases permanent and irreversible. Once the stereocillia in the cochlea become damaged/destroyed, that’s it, it’s gone, and no amount of treatment (standard or homeopathic) will bring those back. Now, some people have fluctuating SNHL, some people have temporary SNHL from viral infections or excessive noise exposure, some people have sudden SNHL…there are all sorts of SNHL’s that can improve, decrease, and change for no reason whatsoever. While everyone is entitled to pursue alternative types of treatment for hearing loss, possibility of reversal is slim to none in most cases. When patients ask me about alternative treatments I provide the scientific evidence about it, which generally is none, and inform them that often times these treatments are conveniently very expensive. Ear candling, honey bees, vitamin therapies, whatever the treatment there is NO scientific proof that it works. Now, if you want to go off and try it anyway be my guest. I just make sure that my patients are adequately informed of the possible side effects/consequences of their actions. If they still choose to do it and for some reason have an improvement, I’d put money on it not actually having anything to do with the therapy but the belief that it would help. Only one time have I actually tested a person and had a clinically SIGNIFICANT (described as a +/- of 10dB or more) improvement in their hearing (patient had acupuncture for tinnitus) show up on the audiogram. That said, if it makes you feel better then by all means, go ahead! I am all for my patients (and anyone else for that matter) feeling better about their hearing loss. I don’t have to buy into it…

So if the OP wants to buy honey bees and try that as a treatment for his hearing loss in addition to other ailments he has then he should go for it…I would just want him to be fully informed as to the possible side-effects of the treatment. My job as a professional is to provide all the information that I have on a topic to adequately inform anyone seeking my advice…what they do with that information and what they decide to do regarding the treatment is up to them.

My father was a HoH beekeeper. It never helped him, except for the fact that he enjoyed doing it.

I had heard of the benefits – bee was attracted to my underarm (deodorant?) anyway thinking it was gone I lowered my arm
Got me in the fleshy part under my bicep – it didn’t hurt all that bad at first (I scraped the stinger off within a second) but later my arm hurt badly for most of that day!
Tried ice, heat, NSAIDS, hydrocort and lanacane plus DMSO gell – no real relief. Next day I awoke feeling really good, just a slight itch at the sting site which I still have.
Funny thing I first noticed no morning stiffness aches 'n pains at 66 yo? My health is very good when I stick to my diet plan (very low-carb), but this was a bit more, an over the top good feeling – younger. No joint or tendon pain.
Then I noticed no more chronic tinnitus? Not sure how long the effects will last. I came here looking to see if anyone else had a similar result.
Oh yeah, I had to turn down the volume, and can even understand actors that mumble with a Foreign Accent over a loud musical score LOL!

Mt tinnitus slowly returned So this time I upped the ante:

Tinnitus [that annoying ringing and bells /w hearing impairment] it is totally gone now! Well, let’s just see how long this lasts

I used an sugar syrup soaked sponge to attract the bees – trying to catch them at the hive exit with my goldfish net got me chased back to the house – with the bees buzzing my head and ears even though none stung me. It was a just their warning and indicated the time for me to fall-back and re-group – lol!

The whole story:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=4711076

I used a very wet sponge sprinkled with white sugar as bait, It was a warm day and I caught the bees with my small goldfish net then xfered em to a glass jar to put in the fridge for about 6 minutes to addle the bees. Then just pick one up with nylon tweezers, apply to the treatment spot (I used my lower back and just below the belly button on my flat abdomen) then with a leather gloved hand gently press on the back of the bee. Viola a prick!

I just left the stingers in for a period of time, then removed em with the tweezers or scraped with a knife blade. BTW: I took 2 Benadryl tablets about an half hour or so before I captured the bees.

YMMV and always watch for any signs of an severe local, or systemic reaction (Anaphylactic Shock) and wait at least 15 minutes before using another bee!!!

There will be some swelling and itching around the site of the sting(s) – this in totally normal. Out of 8 bees I only got two ‘hard stings’ that were mildly painful for about 30 minutes or so. AVOID letting em sting you on the face, hands or feet as the swelling can be an issue. Most bees have to be forced to sting you as long as you are not messing directly around their hive.