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Costco vs. Widex

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Placebo effect has nothing to do with sound differences. All you need is a couple good oscilloscopes and it’s easy enough to see the differences.

As far as binning and ‘culling’ it’s a heck of a lot more sophisticated than that. There are all sorts of mathematical techniques to optimize the binning process. I’ll let you google it.

But I really don’t want to get into a Costco sucks or Costco doesn’t suck argument. I know I won’t change any mbeliefs here. Not am I trying to. But if you truly believe that Siemens doesn’t keep the best performing hearing aids for their Micon Seven’s, then go right ahead. But it flies in the face of every manufacturing and marketing practice of any large company. Do you really think a Siemens is going to leave the quality control of their flagship to chance?

In reply to @rasmus_braun

As far as users’ hearing perceptions all being different, that’s absolutely true. But to use it to argue that there isn’t a difference in quality of sound at a fundamental level is a false argument.

You can’t tell me that your computer speakers sound the same as your full blown stereo system.

Edited

:mad:

Actually sir, I wasn’t trying to argue about anything- I was asking questions, which you have not managed to answer. I’ll just mosey on along, with my limited intelligence and false arguments. have a good evening…

In reply to @Eauchiche

@Eauchiche said:

It would be very helpful to us dispensers reading in if someone would come up with actual data on the percieved quality differences between Costco and the “high end” stuff. Is it the speed of the processors, number of channels, proprietary fitting alogrhythms, or what? Have there been any true double-blind studies on these differences using verification procedures on actual patients?

Those of us how have fit hearing aids for any amount of time (in my case 25 years), all know how elusive and mysterious human hearing can be, when evaluating what “works” and what doesn’t.

Lastly, could there be some placebo effect involved here? In other words, by spending more for a product, does one believe they are actually hearing better?

The hearing aids sold by Costco are the same Resound and Rexton models sold by other distributors. When I first checked out Costco three years ago, I was auditioning the most expensive Resound and Siemens aids available at the time and there was no difference in the performance of the aids sold by Costco than the other vendors. I have always bought the most advanced aid that was available by Phonak, Widex, and Siemens.

I know that people sometimes can’t get past the idea that a Warehouse Club could sell the same quality product, and you are right, some people believe that if it is more expensive it has to be better! I still believe the performance for most hearing aids is achieved by a competent fitter that can effectively utilize the complex fitting software. I have had good and bad experiences, but the person I am working with at Costco is every bit as qualified as any I have used in the past. However, you may find an unqualified fitter at your Costco. Price alone does not guarantee quality!

In reply to @Eauchiche

This discussion reminds me the story from a few years ago when it was discovered that the $3500 Lexicon BD-30 BluRay player was in fact a $499 Oppo BDP-83 in a fancy box. It must perform better because it costs so much more…lol

Lexicon BD-30 Blu-ray Player (Oppo BDP-83 Clone) Review

We discovered the Lexicon BD-30 is an Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray Player with a $3k premium. We prove this with pictures, measurements and an official response from THX. Lexicon no longer sells this product.

I’d love to see the results of a double blind study on this stuff with about 100 subjects, just out of curiosity. think about it. you are looking at subjective comparisons using damaged, distorted ears. Don’t let people know what they are wearing. Just ask them what they think. I would bet that the results are as varied as the comments on this forum.

In reply to @ajwhite

@ajwhite said:

As far as users’ hearing perceptions all being different, that’s absolutely true. But to use it to argue that there isn’t a difference in quality of sound at a fundamental level is a false argument.

You can’t tell me that your computer speakers sound the same as your full blown stereo system.

Comparing your Logitech computer speakers to your Revel Studio2 towers is a very poor analogy for comparing your Widex Dream 440 ’s to the ReSound Verso 9 RIC. Both aids are of similar design and build quality, and have comparable processors, microphones, transducers, software, etc.

The largest distinguishing feature between them is the skill of the audiologist in programming the aids to match the wearers hearing loss. The process of trimming the frequency response and adjusting the compression throughout the frequency range of the is critical (and in no small part subjective to the wearer), and can mean the difference between a violin sounding like a Strad or a Yamaha. The quality of the fitting of the aid to the wearer plays a much more significant role in the sound your hear than the particular model of Knowles receiver your hearing aid happens to use.

I bought the latest Kirkland aids as soon as they became available and I am very happy with them. My hearing loss is severe and I cannot hear anything without them. My biggest problem before was sweat and moisture killing my previous aids and overall shortening their life. When they got wet, they would short out and not work until thoroughly dried out. It got to the point that they needed new internal parts and were cost prohibitive to repair. I demoed the Kirklands and they seem to do everything very well.

I’ve worn aids for over 20 years and with my substantial loss realize my hearing will never be normal, but acceptable is what I’m looking for and that’s fine. I own a retail business and communication is important to me. If you have the time and determination, get what makes you comfortable and works for you. I’d rather do what’s most important to me than spend countless hours chasing the impossible (for me) dream of perfect hearing.

In reply to @ajwhite

This kind of stuff is so much fun. What really matters is what is effective, giving one the necessary audibility for communication while providing a sound quality that allows one to tolerate wearing it. The audibility is objective, the perceived sound quality is completely subjective. For that reason, opinions about the “best” will be all over the place. Here’s the other news flash. What you are just about to invest in, that, which after much time spent on research, is already obsolete. Time marches on, children. The solution isn’t a solution. It is an attempt toward a coping strategy that can never match up to our original equipment or the memories there of. Speaking as someone with over 30 years in this field and at least 5 as an experienced wearer. Ain’t no best one out there. Do a little research, roll dem bones and move on to another area of your life. Just sayin’.

Don’t know much about h/a quality except personal experience from 2005, 6, 7. I deduced at the time the entire industry was full of thieves and charlatans. From my reading in forums dedicated to h/a experiences my opinion hasn’t changed. Thousands of $ for a h/a in this day and age screams from the rooftops that consumers are being cheated.

As for the chips that are at the heart of h/a, there is a chip at the heart of all your electronic stuff. Were you to build your own computer – or have same built to your specs – you would know a way to save money, and lose performance, is with the cpu chip. Intel, a MAJOR manufacturer of chips sells many different models from the really basic single processor to quad processors. Why can’t h/a manufacturers do the same thing – have cpus unique to a model?

I had wondered the same thing about Costco. It seems Costco is a huge provider of hearing aids so I suspect they are the same quality as a private dispenser. I wonder if some of the difference in cost is the commission paid to the audiologist, having to pay rent or mortgage, and or not sharing the commission with the private dispenser company owner. There is a Costco opening near me soon so I am tempted to go there when they open.

So the next question might be the quality of the audiologist, but my experience from the only company I have worked with so in NYC far is they do a hearing test, use those results to have the HA fitting software automatically setup your HAs and they haven’t seem very technical people.

I recently try Oticon OPN and Wydex Dreams. The Audioligits said for me Widex would be better because it amplifies more frequencies the Oticon OPN and I did hear that in my trial. For me Widex is very sensitive to feedback and can be pretty annoying. Perhaps Oticon had a more open 3d directional sound.

I’m not sure I liked the sound of the Widex because it sounded a bit like a cheap speaker however, I am sue that a correct fitting would improve that.

One question I have is most HAs offer several receivers depending on your hearing loss but, will using a more powerful or larger receiver give you a fuller sound?

This is an ancient thread, forgotten and neglected. You will find current threads discussing Costco, and the aids they sell.

@iblaineman said:

will using a more powerful or larger receiver give you a fuller sound?

As I understand it, no. The power of the receiver depends on the amplification needed to match your hearing loss. And the higher-power the receiver, the more it demands from the battery. Higher-power receivers are often physically larger, too, making it harder to get them to fit properly in your ear canals.

More power requirement add a degree of distortion or lack of response. It’s a bit like an old 3 transistor radio where extra volume tends to distort. Not a good comparison but gives an idea.

This is indeed a very old thread and I’m sure that the OP’s wife has long ago made a decision regarding her .

However, in looking over the responses, it’s interesting that they all focused on the relative quality and cost of different HA brands. I’ll not weigh in on that subject.

But I find it interesting that nobody commented on what I regard as the most important and perhaps puzzling sentence in the OP’s post: “My wife has otosclerosis, including one ear with a failed prosthetic surgery.” This implies that she’s has a stapedotomy or stapedectomy. One or two (i.e., one or both ears)? OP writes about “pairs” of HAs, which implies that his wife is using a HA in the ear with the failed prosthesis. This is especially puzzling. If the prosthesis in completely failed, there’s no eardrum-to-cochlea connection, and a HA would be useless.

If the prosthesis is partially or completely failed, this can often be repaired, so was this done or at least investigated? If this could be repaired, of course it would make a much bigger difference than Brand A vs. Brand B HA.

I’m alert to these issues because I have otosclerosis. I’ve had four stapedotomy operations; one in my L ear and three in my R ear (two of which were repairs). Moreover, I believe that there are some HA issues that are unique to those of us with otosclerosis regardless of whether or not we’ve had stapedotomy or stapedectomy operations.

This sounds like a topic that might interest a lot of people. But I think it would belong in the “Hearing Loss” forum, rather than here.

I haven’t searched over there to see if there’s some relevant thread. But maybe, @overoaked, it might be good to post about this over there. It will get lost here for sure.

In reply to @ajwhite

I have worn Phonak for years and demoed Starkey, Oticon as well. From this musicians point of view, the Widex 440 Beyond are superior for music. I think that the industry has generally focused mostly on speech recognition to the detriment of music sound quality because that’s more important to most individuals. I don’t think I’m having any problems with speech recognition.

Just to add something to think about. My boss used to work in an industry that dealt with Wal-Mart. Something simple-a light bulb…the OEM would make the bulbs on one line. The ones that passed all QA checks went to other vendors. The ones that were good enough went to Wal-Mart.

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