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Phonak Marvel 30 Voice issues during Bluetooth Call

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In reply to @Alvin

@Alvin said:

Although the Pens and Select will pair successfully with whatever Bluetooth device I choose, the Marvels will continually cycle between my default program, which is set to Autosense, and the Streaming program. This makes the Bluetooth functionality of the Pen and Select effectively useless.

Few ideas, unless you tried them all.
First idea - if you’re self programming, put roger on manual switching, and then choose it directly in the app / through the button and see if connection roger- is steady.

Second, if you’re using it on phone, connect roger with phone, and disconnect marvels from bt (onlyconnection which is bt, and not bt_le which is used by my phonak app for controlling HAs). Try then streaming calls through the roger device.

If you tried, please share your findings :slight_smile:

In reply to @Alvin

@Alvin and @Zebras: When I use Roger Configurator Tool3 for the combination “Audeo M90-312T - Roger Select” it says, RogerDirect would be installable for Roger-devices having SN > 1744xxxx and by using “Roger Installer”. If this is true, my wife would be able to unpair her marvels when working in her office and take the phonecalls by using Roger Select paired with her phone. Alvin, but you didn’t get it to work or did I misunderstand you?

@Blacky: Thanks for all the details, I’m also an engineer, there’s a big change that I’ll come back to you for some further details of splitting bluetooth etc.

In reply to @Cologne

@Cologne said:

Roger-devices

Not roger devices per se, but, read carefully roger X device. That’s little cube like with 3 pins device, where roger receiver resides. Commonly used to give roger functionality to non phonak through that brands streamers or DAI (direct audio input) shoe/boot, or to some phonak models that can use it through the boot/shoe also.

If you buy pen or select (non iN) versions, you’ll need roger X as well. However, in marvels you don’t plug it in, but instead transfer the ‘licence/receiver’ (phonak has stupid names, receiver for me is physical object, but they’re just transferring license/key or something). Marvels have hardware for roger system, but has to be turned on by buying that ‘licences’ (receivers in phonak’s terms).

Device for transferring is a disk in which you plugin roger X and you put HA in the middle and they do the transfer.

On the other side, if you buy device from iN family, they come with two licences / receivers. However they still need to be transferred to HA in order to activate that hardware.

Once transferred be it from roger X or from iN device, that device doesn’t have license in it anymore. They could be removed from HA and put back, in case you want to change HA or something.

Don’t know what happens if you lose HA, you’re probably out of luck and need to buy it from scratch.

Also think I have a diploma already in trying to figure out phonak’s specs. And no, they don’t inform their dispensers properly, since mine had no clue about some things and he had to call and the person on phone wasn’t exactly sure.

Like he was told that I’d like to buy both pen and select, and instead saying ‘yeah, you need just one iN device, doesn’t matter if pen isn’t iN type if you have select of iN type’, he actually suggested that only way is to use pen additionally buy 2x roger Xes :woman_facepalming:
Either his attention span is shorter than a minute and he forgot about select, or he really has no clue. In any case, I had to found out myself by trying and confirming how it works. I couldn’t find proper info on site either. Someone linked later here something. But you know, to gather information should not be that hard.

For example, until now I didn’t saw this configurator :joy:
And I definitely spend dozens of hours digging about roger tech.

In reply to @Cologne

@Cologne said:

If this is true, my wife would be able to unpair her marvels when working in her office and take the phonecalls by using Roger Select paired with her phone.

If you use select/pen (non iN) and buy 2x roger X in order to transfer licences into marvels, and then connect with between phone and select, while select connects to marvels using roger tech. It could work.

I assume you’re speaking about BT enabled phone?

No need to unpair marvels from phone, just disconnect them (they usually have 3 connections, 2x LE and one regular, disconnect that one).

I’m trying to figure out how to test it, without calling anyone to be my guinea pig :joy:

In reply to @Blacky

@Blacky: Thank you for clarifying, I didn’t know about Roger X so far, my wife started with Marvels.
Ok, to follow your idea idea: I’ll buy 1x “Roger Pen iN” in UK, buy 1x Roger Select (no iN) whereever (ore vice versa), install the licenses from Pen iN into the Marvels (manual found here: https://www.phonakpro.com/content/dam/phonakpro/gc_hq/en/products_solutions/wireless_accessories/roger/documents/Installation_Guide_BtB_Roger_iN_microphones_210x297_EN_V1.00.pdf2) and then try to do the same I described before having additional costs of one Rogen Pen iN. Following the Roger configurator this setting should work.

Thanks @Blacky for the suggestions. I hadn’t thought of shutting off Auto-connect for my Roger streaming, but it’s worth a shot!

What Roger stuff did you end up with?

The only Roger devices that I know of that have Bluetooth are the Pen 1.1 and the standard Select. Neither the Select iN, nor the Pen iN, nor the Easy Pen have Bluetooth.

#tooconfusing :wink:

In reply to @Cologne

@Cologne said:

@Blacky: Thank you for clarifying, I didn’t know about Roger X so far, my wife started with Marvels.
Ok, to follow your idea idea: I’ll buy 1x “Roger Pen iN” in UK, buy 1x Roger Select (no iN) whereever (ore vice versa), install the licenses from Pen iN into the Marvels (manual found here: https://www.phonakpro.com/content/dam/phonakpro/gc_hq/en/products_solutions/wireless_accessories/roger/documents/Installation_Guide_BtB_Roger_iN_microphones_210x297_EN_V1.00.pdf) and then try to do the same I described before having additional costs of one Rogen Pen iN. Following the Roger configurator this setting should work

Yup.
I have the select iN and ordinary pen, transferred licences usin select iN and they both work as mics. That part I’ve checked. But I didn’t manage to test your use case yet. I did find a way though, I’ll use skype assistant for testing calls, echo. Gimme some time :wink:

@Alvin I still haven’t bought anything, my fit ended being really complicated, but I have bunch of things on trial: select iN, regular pen 1.1 and tv connector on trial as well. And will add second next week to try that combo as well. It’s not ‘just low frequency hearing loss’ as things look like. I’ll post an update on my topic.

@Blacky, that’s fantastic that you have been given an opportunity to trial all that stuff. Might I ask a favour of you? Can you couple your Pen with your phone using Bluetooth and tell me what happens? I suspect you will get an endlessly repeating series of chimes playing through your hearing aids which will only go away when you turn off the Bluetooth on your Pen.

I’m curious to see if my experience is repeatable. The only difference between our hardware is that I have X-03 receivers, whereas you’re using the receivers from the iN device.

Thanks!

@Alvin will do, I’m already making notes what combination should I test, be it for myself or you folks here :smiley:

Yeah, I found one awesome fitter :slight_smile: I’ll be in a possession of around 7 thousand euro worth of good in German market (ok probably even more, I use trial , I belive they’re more expensive), and I didn’t even sign a paper, let alone gave deposit. He did scan my insurance card, so I guess that’s enough for him.
Ok yeah, that makes me a bit nervous, like ‘what if I accidentally spill drink on select, or my friend’, I don’t like to have other people’s things in my possession :joy:

I’m trying to figure out best use case for the pen though. I was nervous to successfully try it in one shop today, there was decent amount of bg noise, but I think I didn’t aim it right (yeah, didn’t practice yet on my hubby), or my messed that up (or my roger program settings) .
How do you use yours? Do you literally interview people or you have some more discreet move to aim?

@Blacky - that’s so funny. When I was trialing the Pen and the Select I kept losing the Select. I’d swear it was in my attache only to find it in my jacket, or I’d swear it was in my jacket only to find it covered with paper on my desk. Drove me nuts! Never lost the Pen though - not sure why.

For the most part, I only hand-aim the Pen when I’m attending presentations. I sit in the front row so I can still read lips and hold the Pen discretely in my lap while pointing it toward the presenter. Works great. I haven’t had an opportunity to use it in a more kinetic situation but I think it would be fun playing ‘reporter’.

Here’s two tips for you:

  1. Use the microphone orientation lock button. Phonak thinks it knows what you want, but it typically doesn’t.
  2. Even if you’re aiming it at someone, try and place the Pen on a flat surface. I think the resonance of whatever surface the Pen is on helps the Pen pick up the desired signal.

Thank you very much for helping me with the Bluetooth thing. :slight_smile:

Edited

In reply to @Alvin

@Alvin said:

Can you couple your Pen with your phone using Bluetooth and tell me what happens? I suspect you will get an endlessly repeating series of chimes playing through your hearing aids which will only go away when you turn off the Bluetooth on your Pen.

Yup, can confirm.

I tried unpairing all and repair in different order (various combinations), same thing.
If I put in flight mode, as it said it kills the (both normal and LE), however it also kills roger connection. That part I couldn’t find (what happens with roger direct in flight mode), but my tests show it behaves like that.
All connections are dead. Or in other words, same chip handles BT and roger connection (or at least, same power supply), that explains why they could put both of them in the same aid.

The moment pen enables BT, HA goes nuts.

This was on automatic roger program.

I’ll try with manual and report here if there’s any difference.

Edit: report - same thing. They just kill each other the moment I want to use mic program, and of course, switch back to autosense.

So, my conclusion is that no BT feature of regular pen 1.1 can be used with marvels, because they go crazy. They seem a bit better when both HA and pen are unpaired from phone (just few pings and then stop, but it’s because pen is searching for BT device), and the moment you pair ONLY pen with your phone, HA goes crazy, even if neither BT nor LE_BT from HA is officially connected to the phone.

So basically if you have Marvels and choose regular pen, DO NOT TOUCH phone call buttons since they activate the BT

Next idea would be to test proper BT mic, but I don’t have it, so someone else could try that, but I doubt it works because of what follows.

HA refuse to receive audio signal from call when it’s put into ‘audio only’, they only receive call sound when put to ‘call and audio’, but in that case they also steal the mic. Tested using skype echo assistant.

Only way that comes to my mind to split those two would be to use Y splitter audio+mic, then connect BT emitter to audio, connect HA onto that if they will obey*, and on the mic side again BT emitter to connect BT mic.

Regarding * - if you put roger select in place of that BT emitter it will work properly - redirect audio to the HA, with additional benefit of not using BT which I think uses more power than roger tech. Don’t hold me on my word about that though.

My phone (S8) can split the audio signal, but not for calls. It has to do with that tech explanation I’ve omitted earlier (even though phones allow to fork audio BT signal, since phones can’t process two mic inputs, they don’t even try, even though you might not plugin mic thing on one side of that fork - I don’t if new or whatever BT protocol is named brings changes in that area as well)

@Cologne maybe this above answers some of your questions.

If I forgot to test something and I have correct / enough gadgets, please let me know and I’ll try.

On the bright side, now I know how exactly flight mode works, and I might start using that as my default until I want BT/roger connection.

In reply to @RogerPM

@RogerPM said:

I’ve heard rumors of some users having success with placing the mobile phone much closer to the hearing aid than the Roger mic (it could possibly be the other way around), so they do not interfere as much. I have not verified this, so I cannot say how well it works. But it’s something that could be tried.

Just tried this as well. Rumor.

If I walk away behind some walls and enough distance, yes crazy ring stops. But that’s if I leave both phone and pen in another room (air distance is roughly 8-9m plus one plaster and another cement wall in between).
When I brought pen with me, crazy rings are permanent.

And for this idea to work, pen’s mic should be used in call so you want them near you. I’ve tested holding my hand down, nope, still same problem.

If me and phone walk away, ringing stops - the moment phone loses connection to the pen.

‘Not work well together’ basically is constant switching of autosense to the point that you hear only those pings all the time and nothing in between, so, completely unusable so I’d say ‘they don’t work together’ omitting that ‘well’ because it gives some hope where there isn’t any :rofl:

In reply to @Blacky

@Blacky said:

@Cologne maybe this above answers some of your questions.

This is bad news. At the moment I’ll stop purchasing preparations until some new features/products from Phonak will be released. Let’s see if I’m able to convince my wife wearing some special acoustic noise reflecting hats to improve call quality using the mics, but I’m note sure … :womans_hat: :mortar_board: :billed_cap:

You mean, back to the horns :rofl:

I mean, wired mic on one side of forked audio + roger in on the audio side works really good. But it’s not wireless solution. But still expensive one :cry:
Unless she has need for mic for her, then it would make sense to have that mic and as a bonus, you get better phone calls for the listeners.

I think release of new gadgets in industry is slow, so don’t hold your breath. I wouldn’t expect anything until the end of this year, and maybe even next one, be it from Phonak or Phonak Roger world.

If you have another info, please share :smiley:

@Blacky Thank you for confirming this, it’s great to know I’m not crazy! My wife sends you a big cyber-hug. She thinks I’ll finally be able to stop obsessing over Roger Bluetooth and get on with my life. :smiley:

Further to your previous question about affecting the performance of the Pen in noise, I’ve thought about it, and I think that’s a reasonable assumption. We could look at the math and try to determine the relative loudness of the noise passing directly into your ear and compare it to the Roger signal output at your receivers. I suspect the external noise was overwhelming the signal.

That’s one of the downsides to open fit.

If you look at my you can see that I don’t really need a closed fit. But despite the occlusion and the loss of ‘natural’ hearing in the lower frequencies, I can hear far better with my cShells than I could with domes.

Thank you again.

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