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LE Audio and the Future of Hearing

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2025 is the year to look out for now! :joy:

In the market for new ’s, I was grasping at straws for some info as to when will actually be a “thing” with HA’s. Found the following Soundly review article by an audiologist. Seems to hit the mark based on current state of “progress.”

is currently in the development stages and is not yet widely available.

However, it will slowly roll out over the next five to seven years, with a significant inflection point expected by 2025.

Many hearing aid manufacturers have already committed to developing technology that will work with Auracast in the coming years.

Reports from September 2022 show that at least 103 listings of consumer headphones and gaming devices already support the codec, with the list growing constantly. This list will continue to expand over the next 12 to 18 months.

How Auracast and Bluetooth LE Will Change Hearing Aids (soundly.com)12

Edited

The 2025 “inflection point” comes from research which is referenced in a report downloadable from here. They’re saying that there will need to be a critical mass of “sink” devices (headphones or aids) in use before public buildings start getting fitted in large numbers.

is more than fitting out public buildings. It includes personal connected or connectionless broadcasting. It also includes transmitting low latency audio from your tv. That should be doable by the time we get or aids. Afaik, there’s nothing stopping you from plugging a Auracast transmitter and a microphone into a computer and broadcasting to anyone within 30 metres or so with LE Audio hearing aid or buds. So it’s not like nothing will happen until 2025.

In reply to @cvkemp

Terms such as Bluetooth and Wi-Fi are trademarked to provide a way for the standards bodies to enforce their standards. The vendor is free to produce compatible devices but not use the trademarked term.

For instance, when I last checked several years ago, Nest wireless thermostats did not appear to be Wi-Fi certified, according to the trademark owner. From all reports I have seen, they appear to be compatible with a Wi-Fi wireless network though.

In reply to @jim_lewis

@jim_lewis said:

Reports from September 2022 show that at least 103 listings of consumer headphones and gaming devices already support the LC3 codec, with the list growing constantly. This list will continue to expand over the next 12 to 18 months.

This information is incomplete… codec is only one part of the story. The protocol got to be implemented to communicate with hearing devices (BAP/CAP/HAP)…

In reply to @prodigyplace

Apple and others take these and then do their own thing for devices to device communicate of their own created devices. It will continue to be that way

Take away my curiosity.

I am passionate about cinema, and for years I have had a small home theater room with the classic 7.1 audio system.

The audio is good but, mainly due to my severe to profound type of loss, I use subtitles a lot otherwise I would only understand 70/80% of the dialogues, especially those that are not in my language.

As source I use a computer (HTPC) and I tried to use the bluetooth of my Phonak P90 using a USB> adapter. The streaming audio is good, but of course it’s in stereo and not multi-channel, so I don’t take advantage of the typical cinema surround effect: with BT LE audio, in addition to having better audio, would I also be able to obtain surround?

Thank you

@lello58 said:

with BT LE audio, in addition to having better audio, would I also be able to obtain surround?

No, base codec does not have surround effect. you need a new codec that can do this surround effect… As long you have a device on both end that negotiate the connection between the 2 devices accept codec like dolby atmos., like dolby atmos for tv and a hearing aid that can accept dolby atmos codec…

I don’t know about Dolby Atmos but multi-channel should be possible? Stereo is just two streams that are put into a set and synchronised. No reason why you can’t do the same with four or six.

@d_Wooluf said:

I don’t know about Dolby Atmos but multi-channel should be possible?

Yep. From my slender knowledge, Dolby Atmos requires a 3D spatial arrangement of physical speakers. DTS by playing sound into your ears with different timing (and frequency manipulation?) for each ear tricks your brain into thinking it’s hearing 3D sound and doesn’t require the multi-speaker setup that Dolby Atmos does - but then maybe it’s not as good? I might not remember correctly but I think DTS is open source, too, or at least not as expensive as the licensing fee for Dolby Atmos.

In fact, I’m not interested in Dolby Atmos but a simple 7.1 multi-channel.

As I said, even my room has a 7.1 configuration and not Dolby Atmos because I really don’t care.

There are wireless headphones on the market, such as those from Sony, which simulate multi-channel and those who use them say they are really good.

So I thought this could turn our hearing aids into multi-channel wireless headphones like the Sony ones. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

@lello58 said:

As I said, even my room has a 7.1 configuration and not Dolby Atmos because I really don’t care.

i think you misunderstand me, all i’m saying that the device can negotiate a link between 2 devices… I just used dolby atmos codec as an example…

Looks like Samsung has certified one of their TVs for / :

Samsung QN65Q800. Guess we’ll here more at CES 2023 in a few weeks.

https://launchstudio.bluetooth.com/ListingDetails/1669629

Supports:
Advanced Audio Distribution Profile
Attribute Protocol
Audio Stream Control Service
Audio Video Distribution Transport Protocol
Baseband Conformance
Basic Audio Profile
Broadcast Audio Scan Service
Call Control Profile
Common Audio Profile
Common Audio Service
Coordinated Set Identification Profile
Coordinated Set Identification Service
Generic A/V Distribution Profile
Generic Access Profile
Generic Attribute Profile
Generic Media Control Service
Generic Telephone Bearer Service
Human Interface Device Profile
Interoperability Test Specification
Isochronous Adaptation Layer
Link Manager
Logical Link Control and Adaption Protocol
Low Complexity Communication Codec <— This is codec
Low Energy Link Layer
Low Energy RF PHY
Media Control Profile
Public Broadcast Profile <— This is Auracast
Published Audio Capabilities Service
Radio
Security Manager Protocol
Service Discovery Protocol
Volume Control Profile
Volume Control Service

That’s cool. I forgot about CES. It seems unlikely to me that manufacturers have been holding product back- forgoing the lucrative Christmas season- so they can bring them out at CES. We’ll find out soon I guess.

In reply to @Spindel

This is a compatible device, it has profile required .You also need Basic Audio Profile and Common Audio profile… Not just codec… You can run LC3 over blluetooth classic, MFI, protocols

In reply to @d_Wooluf

Will be interesting to see if gets much attention from CES. From what I can tell from Bluetooth Sig, it looks like Samsung Galaxy Z Fold 4 and Flip 4, a new OnePlus Phone (likely OnePlus 11) and some Realme phones are the only ones that have the BAP and CAP profiles. Possibly some other Chinese phones that I’m not familiar with (ZTE for example) I suspect Samsung Galaxy S23 models will have it. Will be interesting to see if any get it retroactively (S22, Pixel 7 for example)

In the developer options on the Pixel 7 there is a toggle switch to enable LE audio. It’s off by default. I just toggled it on.

The wording under the toggle says Enables Bluetooth LE audio feature if the device supports LE audio hardware capabilities

Pixel 7 doesn’t show up on Bluetooth.com6 My guess is that it will eventually be certified for BAP and CAP profiles, but does not seem to be currently. (But only a guess)

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