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REM testing in programming software

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I have been reading that manufacturers have added a feature in their programming software and mentions that you do not need other hardware to perform REM testing. Is this similar to actual REM testing with the REM probe equipment, or can you do real REM testing within the new programming software without other hardware.

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Can you show us the link to what you read, as it’s estimated in Phonak and Widex and most likely in other manufacturers software as well at the moment, it’s unlikely to be the “Real” Real Ear Measurement.

Could you expand please? I have just recently read about the test. I am currently trialing and finding it exhausting and frustrating. I asked the Widex audi about the REM and he told me it is outdated and now it is incorporated in their software. I had a test where a device connected to his PC was hung around me neck and he told me to be silent for a minute or so while he did a test and I could see the graphs changing. I was not very happy with the resulting programming and went to a Oticon dealer, where I have now been 8 times for adjustments. At my request she did a REM once. The programming so far is largely unsuccessful.
The frustration at being so powerless in their hands is driving me crazy.
Thanks in advance for any info.

@Doggit said:

The frustration at being so powerless in their hands is driving me crazy.

Well you’d be a perfect candidate for , stop wasting your time and money and get yourself set up to it yourself, its super easy and plenty of people from right here on the forums to help you get the most out of your .
Just ask.

Good luck.

Hello. Can it be so easy if an audiologist is having so much trouble with me? I have reasonable hearing in LF and zero in HF. Although my shows similar graph for both ears, I am almost totally deaf in my right ear and wearing 2 actually decreased my word recognition. I am a teacher so have to cope with noisy mask wearing kids all day and also find it very difficult to understand my colleagues even with my HA. Feel daunted by the prospect of trying to programme.

The in-situ fitting might be best for you. Widex is known by members here who really believe in-situ is best fit.
In-situ fittings are done completely with the hearing aid software, no testing done in a sound proof room. Since you mentioned Widex it might be worth asking about.

The in situ Widex fitting gave me incredibly accurate hearing straight away and it creates a tailor made set up using the aids in position in your ears, considering the vent size and feedback calibration. I sympathise with the challenges of a school and mask wearing. The 440 gives excellent speech in noise and you can have separate programmes set up (Evoke). The main “universal” programme automatically moves between the sound classes to give best acoustic results. For instance on a train station I can now hear all the announcements, but when on the train the sound class would change to travel. I love streaming music from my phone with them. The customs need a comdex for this, and the F2s stream direct to iPhone and have the capabilities.

In reply to @Raudrive

I have asked the Widex bloke about in situ and his reply is that they have a thing called Remote Care which involves the around your neck device but he says for me it would be better to use the Widex software to make some adjustments myself. Is he talking about in situ ? What do you mean by the customs and F2s and Al capabilities. I feel daft asking but I find this all confusing. I had 8 sessions trialling a 440 evoke and still didnt get an acceptable programming btw. thanks

Remote care is for changing your settings with the dispenser when you are at home and he is in his office. Custom is a hearing aid completely made for you with a hard shell that sits just in your ear canal. The soundsense app is available with iPhone and the F2 which is a ric aid, it refers to “artificial intelligence” where you can try different settings at home and adjust the programmes to what you think sounds best. However-it is critical that the dispenser follows the set up correctly. Many times with the same aids I didn’t hear well initially because something had been missed by the dispenser like selecting the vent size (ie 2mm/1.5mm), getting a custom mould or custom ear tip (you can get a custom slim tip with F2), this gives best clarity and then ensuring the correct aid type (slim tip/double dome etc) is selected when running the sensogram. This ensures it all aligns to give the best possible start point. Once all this was done I didn’t need to change anything, and my hearing is excellent. Using doesn’t work as it doesn’t take in to account all the other aid factors so actually makes it less intelligible. The 440 is the hearing aid specification and the top level which gives best speech in noise. If you try them again and still aren’t hearing well ask for the Widex representative who will check the set up has been followed correctly. The tonelink app lets you change programmes and the volume.

In reply to @Doggit

I understand in situ to refer to the Widex set up as above where the aids are placed in your ears and then the set up followed, so vent size, hearing aid type, sensogram and feedback calibration.

No aids have rem measuring. Point of rem is verification, and mic is catching the sound near the eardrum.

What widex has is used for programming them, but that’s not rem. Also, I was told by my experienced fitter and discussed with @tinkyp previously, widex is the only one where rem doesn’t work as advertised. My guess is that they process sound in a different way or something so it’s definitely the best way to use their fitting methods.

I had terrible luck with the in in sittu setting for Widex myself. It is my understanding that using with Widex does not lead to optimal results. In the end the Phonak Paradise with REM gave me much better speech comprehension with a lot less back and forth!

Jim

@Raudrive said:

Audiogram Direct

Thank you all for your information.
Having spent 4 unsatisafactory weeks testing a Widex dealer, then the same with the Oticon dealer, I have now spend 2 weeks with a Beltone which is marginally better but this audiologist has now suggested trying a Phonak.
I am so frustrated. They have all said I can’t expect 100% hearing, but I don’t understand why I can’t get something satisfactory. As a teacher, I am having so much stress all day, every day because I can’t understand what mask-wearing kids and colleagues are saying. The Audiologists solution is turn up the volume, but this only makes me wince. Am I expecting too much from a 4000€ device?

If you are located anywhere near a Costco they might be able to help you for much less money. Their KS9 aids can also be programmed with the Target software.
For that matter buying used Phonak aids from eBay for example can be very rewarding once you learn how to program them. Using Direct has worked very well for me.

In reply to @Doggit

What is your word recognition score in quiet and in noise? The one with headphones, not with hearing aids.

Also, your ?

Click on someone’s Avatar (other than your own) that has that little mushroom icon on the lower right of their Avatar. The mushroom icon (or headphones icon depending on how you look at it) indicates that an online is available for viewing.

TIP: If you hover over someone’s online audiogram (away from the x’s and o’s) it will show you the type of hearing loss (color coded from light blue to darker red) Normal, Slight, Mild, Moderate, Severe, and Profound. Your hearing loss (in the high frequencies) is profound.

This is not my profession and therefore, I am not comfortable advising others with a profound hearing loss, except for this tip on how to recognize such. Maybe start to gain knowledge about your loss and how it may be treated. That knowledge will be helpful when discussing your loss with professionals. Maybe you are already aware that professionals also like to make money selling hearing aids. So keep that in mind.

  • Maybe Google How to Read an Audiogram
  • Maybe Google hearing aid . I’m not sure if your loss has the proper frequency available to accept the lowered sounds. But at least you will know about that treatment method.

Hi, I think I have a basic understanding of the . The I have been trialling have (Belton Amaze, Oticon S1, Widex 440 Evoke). I have had the same issue with all of them; there is a frequency that is too loud. It is a bit like having a photo with a line through it so you can see some of the image but part of it is obscured, if you understand what Im getting at. And I can’t understand anything with mask wearers, which is everyone I work with.

Regarding frequency lowering, I don’t understand why this has not solved my problem, taking into account my low frequencies aren’t too bad. Also, with the apps, if I adjust the treble, am I in effect not adjusting anything because the high frequencies have been lowered.

The fact that the audiologists can’t know what it is like to be half deaf is so frustrating. I have twice been told that the frequency lowering will change how everything sounds; of course it doesn’t because I couldn’t hear the highs in the first place.

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