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Tweaking music program step by step

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In reply to @e1405

@e1405 said:

For other musical purposes I still need to figure out a compression rationale

I came here to say that Marshall Chasin, well respected for his work on music in audiology, tends to recommend regular prescribed compression for music programs. But if you’ve just tweaked your program a bit it looks like you’ve already arrived there. :slight_smile:

@Neville said:

But if you’ve just tweaked your DSL program a bit it looks like you’ve already arrived there. :slight_smile:

Yeah, my music program sounds richer for both acoustic and classical guitars. Oticon’s MyMusic sounded a bit artificial, even with all the tweaks I did.

I ended up creating a new program for general use based on this new music program and the overall compression rationale of my main VAC+ program. I haven’t had the time to do a proper A/B comparison of them yet (VAC+ / DSL), though the DSL program sounds better for music streaming.

In reply to @tenkan

I wonder if this site could or might establish some sort of post-it that would incorporate the very good pdfs about programming aids for music that are scattered pell mell over a variety of threads. that way, one could just reference that single post it (or whatever these things are called) when this topic comes up again. And it comes up fairly frequently. I also find myself referring to these pdfs on a classical guitar site that I frequent, and on a site called ‘adult musicians with hearing loss’. These pdfs are a great resource. And one can bring one or more in to their audi when going to get fitted.

That’s a good idea, your right, the topic does come up quite randomly when we may be discussing something else, is it a “sticky” or more like a link that takes one back to a particular topic in the forum?

I know that for me, until I got custom molds, Music and streaming sounded unnatural. Now with custom molds and self tweaking, music is actually sounding pretty good…for aids

In reply to @tenkan

I was thinking of a sticky–I think you’re right, that’s the term. something that would appear on the home page, or on a side bar, that would collect all of these pdfs together, or anyway some of them. Then it would be simple to refer people to that one spot. A pdf was extremely useful for me to take in to my audi, who really knew nothing about programming for playing music–and this is pretty typical. At the same time, the pdfs would be useful for self programmers.

@jeffrey said:

who really knew nothing about programming for playing music

This makes me a bit nuts. This is an educational gap that’s really easy to fill.

Edited

Yes, some sort of post-it on music and hearing aids would be great on this site. In the meantime, I’ve learned much from entering the word “Music” in the search feature here. A lot of good information has been posted in various threads over the years, but it takes time to sort through the threads and replies.

Edited

Well, yes. On the home page, there are three categories to choose from. A ‘sticky" could be added that would include “instructions for creating a music program” and any other common topics. The pdfs would be listed under that topic.
There is a difference between creating a program for passive listening, and streaming music; and for playing music. The last is called a “musician’s program”. Part of the difference has to do with how an instrument is positioned relative to the player and his instrument. A violin played by a musician is incredibly loud for the player for example. It’s right up by his or her ear (hearing aid). In that position, it can overwhelm microphones and speakers. That’s not at all the same thing as listening to a cd of an orchestra that’[s been balanced and processed. So the two different scenarios also have to be explained to many (most?) audiologists. This last is according to the common wisdom found on the Adult Musicians With Hearing Loss site that I frequent.

A quick update on this little adventure! Although I am happy with the program I crafted with linear compression, it is a bit weary to listen to my guitars with that sort of raw output. The guitars sound great (acoustic and classical), but linear compression was leading to a reasonable amount of fatigue after some time.

So, now I have that program with a compression scheme similar to what Oticon uses in the MyMusic program. That means: 1) compression ratios very close to linear from moderate to loud; and 2) compression ratios between 1.5 and 2 from soft to moderate. This new program doesn’t sound as fun as the old one, but it has been a good compromise between guitar resonance and physical comfort.

Edited

Updating with the audio files I use now. Frequencies are: 125, 250, 500, 625, 750, 1000, 1100, 1250, 1400, 1500, 1700, 1850, 2000, 2300, 2600, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000, 5500, 6000, 7000, and 8000 Hz.

  1. 65 phons (set 1kHz to play at 65 ): file4
    Here is the screenshot of the eq I created in Audacity. Eq file is here1.
    image

The audio file after eq:

image

  1. 85 phons (set 1kHz to play at 85 dB): file1. And here the eq file for Audacity.

I am still quite happy with the music program. My guitars (acoustic and classical) sound great. However, I figured that the 85 phons curve would be more appropriate to use since my guitars are a bit loud.

Edit: One more step I added: I am doing the calibration using a good pair of over-the-ear headphones now. I get the EQ preset for this headphone from oratory1990 (complete list is here4). With the headsets properly equalized to the Harman target that oratory1990 uses, I play the hearing test audio.

Edited

NEW AUDIO FILES

This time I used Matlab to generate the audio files. I do not recommend using the previous ones anymore. Frequencies are (each played for 2 seconds): 125, 250, 500, 625, 750, 1000, 1100, 1250, 1400, 1500, 1700, 1850, 2000, 2300, 2600, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000, 5500, 6000, 7000, and 8000 Hz.

I recalibrated my two music programs (guitars and headphones/sound systems) with these two new audios and they sound even better.

Here is a plot comparing my 65 phons audio to the targets of the Iso 226 for 65 phons.

65phons_vs_iso226

Here are the links: 65 phons2 and 85 phons2.

Edit: You need to play 1 kHz at 65 (for the 65phons audio) and at 85 dB (for the 85 phons audio). There are many apps that measure intensity and show you the frequency played. I use Decibel X (available on iPhone). As I mentioned in previous posts, this is a qualitative way of tweaking your music program (perhaps you’d be better off with :wink:). You also need the music program to be as “analog” as possible (I talked about this in previous posts). Also, be sure to use good and trustworthy speakers or headphones; the flatter the frequency response, the better.

In reply to @e1405

@e1405 said:

he guitars sound great (acoustic and classical), but linear compression was leading to a reasonable amount of fatigue after some time.

I intuitively understand what you’re saying here, but…I also play classical guitar. Honestly, it’s not nearly as loud as a violin even a cello or a flute or clarinet. I’m happy with the tweaked music program that I have on my Signia ax7’s. The compression is entirely turned off. I don’t have issues with feeling tired from hearing my guitar at near normal levels at all. So our experience with this is quite different. I wonder if you’ve programmed your aids too loud?

all the best, Jeff

Edited
@jeffrey said:

I don’t have issues with feeling tired from hearing my guitar at near normal levels at all. So our experience with this is quite different. I wonder if you’ve programmed your aids too loud?

You’re right @jeffrey. At the time I wrote that, some frequencies were indeed loud. Since then, I’ve tweaked my music program with the audio I created in September, and I did it again yesterday with the newest audio I created using Matlab. I have two music programs now: one for my guitars, with no compression, and one for my headphones/sound systems, with a compression scheme similar to my main program. They both sound great and I do not feel any disconfort anymore.

All the best to you, too!

Edited

It turns out there is an easier and more straightforward way of tweaking the music program using the Headphone + Hearing Test of Peace (Equalizer APO). Here is a link22 that describes how to do it.

I used that tool to fine-tune my music programs (guitar and headphones/music). I mirrored the frequency response of my DT 770 Pro (from RTINGS) and tweaked my guitar program using the 80 phons curve, and my headphone/music program with the 60 phons curve. Whenever needed, the target gain in my hearing aids was increased or decreased to achieve the flat response shown in the screenshot below.

60phons_rtings

Here is a comparison of the music program I crafted (solid lines) versus Oticon’s MyMusic program (prescribed targets - dotted lines).

PMusic

Edited

With all the advancements, I wanted to share two new audio files ChatGPT made for me—one at 65 phon and one at 80 phon. ChatGPT triple-checked them, I’ve run some tests myself, and I also did some extrapolation using the calculator on this webpage3. To the best of my knowledge, they conform to the ISO 226:2003 standard (normal equal-loudness-level contours).

Edit: Link for 45 Phon4.

Link for 65 Phon9.

Link for 80 Phon4.

Here are the frequencies and corresponding levels for both audio files.

image

image

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