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Phonak Bluetooth voice rattle

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I’d be grateful for any similar experiences that might offer a solution.
I recently got Phonak Bolero M70-M (non-rechargeable battery) hearing aids through the British NHS. Parameters set by Audiologist to my hearing loss profile. They’re taking some getting used to, particularly regarding nearby sharp/bright sounds that I haven’t heard for a while! But mostly all is good. They improve audio quality when watching TV.
My problem only arises whilst listening to spoken word via Bluetooth from my iPhone. Both on phone calls and on books/podcasts. There’s a following noise after every word, it follows the tone pitch of the voice - not quite an echo, not quite a rattle. Very hard to describe, but incredibly annoying.
I went back to the audiologist who adjusted the Bluetooth gain down a couple of points, but it didn’t stop this weird noise.
It’s not obvious when listening to music, the continuous sound covers the rattle.
I realise that the primary value of hearing aids is to improve my general hearing quality, not to be hi-fi audio buds - however… if they offer Bluetooth connectivity surely they should work.
iPhone 15, iOS 17.5.1 - all up to date. Tried another iPhone, same problem. No such problem with my Bluetooth headphones or earbuds, only with these hearing aids.
Is this something anyone else has had? Is there a solution that my audiologist hasn’t tried? Do I give up and use my earbuds for podcasts?
Very grateful for any experience that might help.

17 people in this conversation20 min readJump to latest

Hi @KevM , the noise after every word could be the feedback management.
Could you please describe the type of acoustic coupling you have on the Bolero M.
Do you have domes ( which type of dome) ?. Or do you have earmolds on both aids. How big is the diameter of the venting?

Edited

Thank you @firenzel for offering to help. They are ‘medium open’ domes according to the notes I’ve been given. Approximately 9mm external diameter Tried to upload photo, but it won’t work. Don’t really understand the question about diameter of venting.

Don’t forget “latency” can play a part, too much feedback management isn’t a bluetooth issue, but settings set too aggressive (including noise reduction) can cause warble and artifacts in sound quality, target software has some good bluetooth adjustments available, if you can’t sort it out ask your Audiologist to have another look at the settings, otherwise it could be time for a project.

In reply to @KevM

I had a ringing in my Audeo M70R’s that would give a trailing tone when people talked. I have open dome on one side and partially open on the other. The audi adjusted one of the parameters (this was years ago now) that controlled feedback suppression and it cleared it up. Mine was an obvious feedback “ringing” sound on ambient speech so YMMV.

In reply to @tenkan

@tenkan said:

Don’t forget “latency” can play a part, too much feedback management isn’t a bluetooth issue, but settings set too aggressive (including noise reduction) can cause warble and artifacts in sound quality,

Sure , that could cause the issues. Sorry i didn’t were aware that the strange sound is only heard while Bluettooh streaming of podcasts

OP, I’d try with a different dome: sounds like the aid might be trying to ‘paste’ over the gaps in the music or is too slow in damping the mic to the receiver output. You wouldnt normally notice the same effect in a soundfield because it would likely be lower than the ambient signal.

Edited

Thanks @PeterH Just tried adaptive bandwidth and it’s a lot better. Not totally gone, but a lot less intrusive

By coincidence I saw your post just as I arrived home from an audiology appointment at a hospital in Edinburgh. I was there to try to sort out an identical problem with the one you describe. I have the same model of hearing aids that you have (I’ve only had them for a few months) and when I’m streaming radio programmes there’s a sort of morse code noise in the background that’s in time with the words. I don’t have the same problem with music. The audiologist today was baffled, but after doing some searching it seems that this problem occurs with other makes of hearing aids too. In addition, my phone is an android (Samsung A34) rather than an iPhone, so the operating system isn’t the problem either. She concluded that it must be something to do with Bluetooth connectivity. She suggested unpairing the hearing aids, uninstalling the Phonak app, and then restarting the phone. I’ve done that but there’s no difference. The audiologist has offered to contact the UK Phonak app and he is he can help. If I get anywhere I’ll post again.
Phil
2024-08-30T16:46:00Z

Thanks @Phil_B . At last! You describe pretty much the same audio effect that I have. I’ve tried all those options and more - to no avail. The best change has been using the app to change the Bluetooth to Adaptive bandwidth. The weird ’nnggg’ noise is less noticeable - but not gone. The most interesting comments have been regarding ‘latency’ and a more ‘occluded’ fitting. I don’t quite know how to deal with those, but I’m working on them. Interested to find out how you get on

In reply to @Phil_B

The answer could be in the Target software.

When you Bluetooth stream with phonak, they make a decision on 2 different configurations:
Media speech + mic
Media music + mic

If one works ok, I’d look at changing the programme options from the one that works badly, to the one that doesn’t.

In my P90s the only noticable difference is that Media speech + mic has “Soundrelax” at 8/20 whereas Media music + mic is at zero. As for the /Gains, music has higher gains in the mids and lows.

Edited

In reply to @KevM

@KevM said:

The most interesting comments have been regarding ‘latency’ and a more ‘occluded’ fitting. I don’t quite know how to deal with those, but I’m working on them. Interested to find out how you get on

you could try to close your ear canals while streaming podcasts, stick finger in ear , and hear if it make a differnence

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