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Does the bass slider in the Phonak app actually do anything?

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Edited

I’ve tried Infinio and Lumity ’s from Phonak and generally I’m a big fan of the app. I have to ask though, does the bass slider in the eQ actually do anything in peoples opinions? I can clearly hear when the mids and treble ar adjusted but I cannot hear anything happen when I play around with the bass, either increasing or decreasing it.
I have not tried sealed domes which my audiologist says is where I’d notice the difference, but with other HA manufacturers I can tell things have changed. We’re not talking about sub frequencies here that you’d miss, the speakers on these things are tiny so surely you’d hear something around the 300 to 800 hz mark at least or even below that point.

I do have low frequency loss so the gain on these is fairly high, I wonder if maybe the app is not being allowed to increase the bass, but then surely it would be allowed to decrease? would be interested in peoples thoughts. If someone can confirm they can hear the difference that would be interesting to me.

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Edited

You didn’t mention, by strictly speaking which acoustic coupling you use. Perhaps you need more closed ones (like or power domes), because low frequencies tend to leak through the venting.

I don’t know which Infinio you use. For example, Infinio Sphere 90 or Infinio R 90, which doesn’t have DEEPSONIC denoising chip.

I have no idea why things were different with other hearing aids. Maybe they have a different form factor of domes, or maybe they have longer wires, so you positioned them deeper, etc.

Personally, I started noticing changes in my Phonak app when I changed from an earmold with a 2.5 mm vent diameter to more closed one with a 1 mm vent. Then I began to hear the real differences when I adjusted the speech focus or noise reduction sliders.

On another post, you mentioned a lack of directionality. Perhaps you have wires that are too long, and the hearing aids lay too far back on the auricle?

They must be positioned closer to the apex of the auricle. Then, microphone inlets from the front and rear microphones will be more in a horizontal line (parallel to the ground) and become more efficient in directionality.

In reply to @Bimodal_user

HI. I have used both open and bented domes.
I can tell the difference in the phonak app with every other setting no problem, it is just the bass one that baffles me. I don’t believe the frequencies are leaking out as people claim. The frequencies we’re talking about here are very high up compared to what most people think as bass. Also i refuse to believe they’d make absolutely no difference at all when the slider is moved. I can’t tell a decrease either. wire lenght has nothing to do with it as far as I’m concerned, the tip is snug inside my ear and moving the domes around does nothing. I’ve even pressed my fingers in to close off the ear which would simulate a . Stil nothing.

The type of Infinio I would imagine makes very little difference. I wasn’t using the sphere in the Spheric mode so the deep sonic chip wasn’t acvitated. I’ve tried the Lumity’s before, same app, no difference again. I just find it weird that I can tell every other setting in that app has changed, but not the bass. I honestly don’t think enough people are playing with this and really listening to the difference. I think it just sits there most of the time and people may not adjust the sliders quite as much. Also many people have high freq hearing loss so for them the bass is probably less important.

In reply to @Bimodal_user

Yeah the aids have been positioned properly, but you just don’t get the same type of directionality from a as an . I mean you physically can’t simulate a effect with the ’s placed on top of your ears, that is not how we as humans hear sound. The best directionality I ever got FYI was the PHonak Lyric. The problem is it’s an analogue device which whilst good, isn’t customisable to my hearing loss. When those were deep inside my ears however, I had full front back side to side and up and down hearing ability. This IMHO is what we should all be aiming for. The RIC is a cheap fitting option and cheap to produce but it’s not real hearing and it’s not simulating the physics and shape of your ears.

phonakbass

This is a test box measurement I did a while back with some Phonak devices. I do not recall specifically if they were Paradise or Lumity, but I believe the myPhonak EQ sliders affect the same bands.

HI. Apologies, I have no eyesight I’m totally blind, so I can’t read the test results you posted there. Are you saying you moved the EQ sliders and ran measurements against the ’s, or are you saying you measured the aids and believe that the EQ bands affects those frequencies? I guess what I’m trying to establish is, did you take measurements before and after moving the bass slider and did it show any movement?

The picture shows graph with 3 lines:

  1. first line with no adjustments of bass slider in myPhonak app.

  2. second line - slider adjusted to maximum, there is gain increase:

  • about +20 in 250 Hz
  • about +10 db in 500 Hz
  • gradually decrease of gain to 0 dB at about 1000 Hz
  1. third line - slider adjusted to minimum, there is attenuation:
  • about -20 dB in 250 Hz
  • about -7 dB in 500 Hz
  • gradually less attenuation towards 1000 Hz.

Thanks. Hmm. I will have to use a and see if I can hear any difference what so ever. I am hoping when the virto I-r comes out I will be able to hear a difference since I’ll likely get a non-vented version.

In reply to @Xonic83

@Xonic83 said:

it is just the bass one that baffles me

What receiver do you have? S — from smallest receiver? I don’t know if it makes a difference in bass; however, if I recall correctly, it is harder to play bass with smaller membranes.

@Xonic83 said:

The frequencies we’re talking about here are very high up compared to what most people think as bass

According to the graph above, for sounds above 500 Hz, there is less than a 10 gain increase or less than 7 dB of sound attenuation. So, there is a possibility you couldn’t perceive the difference if the sound is above 500 Hz.

@Xonic83 said:

wire lenght has nothing to do with it as far as I’m concerned, the tip is snug inside my ear and moving the domes around does nothing. I’ve even pressed my fingers in to close off the ear which would simulate a closed dome. Stil nothing.

If the receiver tip is snugly seated deep in the ear canal, a long wire could still be an issue because the hearing aid body rests too far backward and downward on the auricle. The hearing aid body has inlets for two microphones: front and rear.
If the body is too backward and downward, the hypothetically drawn line connecting the front and rear microphones runs not from back to front of you, parallel to the ground, but from down to up, destroying the directionality.

@Xonic83 said:

The type of Infinio I would imagine makes very little difference. I wasn’t using the sphere in the Spheric mode so the deep sonic chip wasn’t acvitated.

In default settings, speech needs to be at least 70 dB above the noise level to activate Spheric Speech Clarity in automatic AutoSense OS 6.0. Thus, many users have a manual Spheric Speech Clarity program.

Your audiologist can set the threshold to less than 70 dB to activate Spheric Speech Clarity in AutoSense OS.

Nevertheless Sphere is practical due to big battery.

In reply to @Bimodal_user

Excellent

These details are so important

Another factor for me. I often work on construction sites. Dirty. Dusty. So keeping the hearing aids clean is imperative

When I went to Peel audiology I had to watch carefully. They would change domes and forget to change the setting in Target. CVA did the same thing.

So settings are important. Skilled specialists are essential.

In reply to @Bimodal_user

@Bimodal_user said:

The picture shows graph with 3 lines:

  1. first line with no adjustments of bass slider in myPhonak app.
  2. second line - slider adjusted to maximum, there is gain increase:
  • about +20 dB in 250 Hz
  • about +10 db in 500 Hz
  • gradually decrease of gain to 0 dB at about 1000 Hz
  1. third line - slider adjusted to minimum, there is attenuation:
  • about -20 dB in 250 Hz
  • about -7 dB in 500 Hz
  • gradually less attenuation towards 1000 Hz.

Wow, this is really useful.

Do you have similar for medium and high frequencies?

In reply to @Xonic83

Oh goodness thank you for letting me know. For these measurements I programmed a set of Phonak devices and then presented a standardized speech sample three times, one with the bass slider in the middle, once with the bass slider at maximum, and once with the bass slider at minimum. The purpose of this measurement was not to determine what the hearing aids can do, but more what the app allows you to change.

Based on what I am seeing, the bass slider affects frequencies up to ~900 Hz, with increasing range with decreasing frequency. The largest range I could see it approximately 40 at ~250 Hz. @Bimodal_user , yes this is for a closed coupling. @PeterH I did the same measurements with the other sliders, and I can upload those when I have a break.

In reply to @Bimodal_user

@Xonic83 said:

The frequencies we’re talking about here are very high up compared to what most people think as bass

@Bimodal_user said:

According to the graph above, for sounds above 500 Hz, there is less than a 10 dB gain increase or less than 7 dB of sound attenuation. So, there is a possibility you couldn’t perceive the difference if the sound is above 500 Hz

@PaulC said:

@Bimodal_user , yes this is for a closed coupling.

@Xonic83, so that 10 gain in 500 Hz or 7 dB attenuation was for closed coupling. I think there is negligible changes if patient would change bass slider with open dome.

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