First post here so hope I dont come of as a total newbie here
Ive always wondered why there arent really any hearing aids above 10k hz bandwitdh? Think there are a lot of people like me who have some damage in the upper freqs (combination of earinfections since childhood and damage through noise) who wouldt mind to hear a bit more air in the upperfrequencies, especially since I work a lot with music. I figure its something that can be done easily with software, so why not with hearing aids?
Hearing aids are designed to hit the frequencies where speech is present. If you look at the Speech Banana you will see that speech is present up to about 6000 hz so even 10k is a not really needed unless you want to hear HF cellphone ring tones.
Hearing aids are designed to hit the frequencies where speech is present. If you look at the Speech Banana you will see that speech is present up to about 6000 hz so even 10k is a not really needed unless you want to hear HF cellphone ring tones.
Speech is important for communication of course, but so are other sounds in the modern world. Even documentaries and films have a lot of music integrated, so it seems logical to stretch the level to 10k.
Hearing aids are designed to hit the frequencies where speech is present. If you look at the Speech Banana you will see that speech is present up to about 6000 hz so even 10k is a not really needed unless you want to hear HF cellphone ring tones.
I know that hearing aids are primarily made for human speech, but thats not really my question. I klnow in fact after reading different articles and also being part of a research that hearing music is a big problem for hearing aid-users. So my question is, why not go beyond the 10k mark? And Im really emphasizing here on a group like me who have mild hearing loss in the higher frequencies.
Siemens Primax/Binax has 12khz, but i dont know how they fit those 8khz+ aids when your goes only to 8khz.
Also you dont really need 8khz+ even for music.
my Bernafon aids go up to 10 kHz. But when I look at the insertion gain curve, I see that there is no gain at 10 kHz. So I tried to increase gain in that area a bit and found out, that
a) you get feedback pretty early at that frequency, and it sounds really really annoying.
b) with slightly raised gain at 10 kHz (without feedback), I found the hearing experience quite tiresome.
So my personal opinion is: Get the 10 kHz aid to be sure it really works at 8 kHz.
Now to the question “why”. First of all, you need a sampling frequency of at least two times the maximum frequency you want to sample. Higher sampling frequency means higher battery drain.
Second, even if there are sounds at, say, 12 kHz, they usually are soft. I found this graph
where you can see clearly that the harmonics of the violin at 6 kHz are about 40 softer than the base frequency. Let´s assume that the harmonics at 12 kHz (who are surely there, no denying that) are 60 dB softer than the base frequency. If the violin plays at 80 dB, the harmonics at 12 kHz can still be heard by people with good ears.
I have a hearing loss of about 60 dB at 10 kHz, I don´t know about 12 kHz. Let´s asssume the same. For me to hear the harmonics at 12 kHz, I´d need more than 40 dB gain at that frequency. This would be more gain than is used at any other frequency! In other words: This would be ridicoulously much gain!
And I´m talking about a live violin here. If you listen to your cd, at a nice level of, say, 60 dB. Then you´d even need more gain to hear something at 12 kHz.
So, what I´m trying to say: Even with a mild loss, you´d need very strong amplification to hear the very soft overtones present at very high frequencies.
Also, in every day situations, there is only noise at 12 kHz. So you´d hear much more noise. And if you use the 12 kHz amplification for music only, you won´t be used to it and find everything sharp and tinny.
People with young, healthy ears have 0 dB loss at, say, 15 kHz. With ears like that I´m quite sure that there are interesting things to hear, especially for music. But for people - even with a mild loss only - those frequencies are out of reach.
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So, what I´m trying to say: Even with a mild loss, you´d need very strong amplification to hear the very soft overtones present at very high frequencies.
Also, in every day situations, there is only noise at 12 kHz. So you´d hear much more noise. And if you use the 12 kHz amplification for music only, you won´t be used to it and find everything sharp and tinny.
…
I presumed there had to be a reason! Thank you for the information
This is not really true. Surely the most important things happen under 8k, but almost all if not all music still have sonic information going on above 8k which add to the total experience(hihats, cymbals etc). Of course this also depends on different styles of music (classical music wont have as much happening in the upper freqs as Electronic dance music for example).
my Bernafon aids go up to 10 kHz. But when I look at the insertion gain curve, I see that there is no gain at 10 kHz. So I tried to increase gain in that area a bit and found out, that
a) you get feedback pretty early at that frequency, and it sounds really really annoying.
b) with slightly raised gain at 10 kHz (without feedback), I found the hearing experience quite tiresome.
So my personal opinion is: Get the 10 kHz aid to be sure it really works at 8 kHz.
Now to the question “why”. First of all, you need a sampling frequency of at least two times the maximum frequency you want to sample. Higher sampling frequency means higher battery drain.
Second, even if there are sounds at, say, 12 kHz, they usually are soft. I found this graph
where you can see clearly that the harmonics of the violin at 6 kHz are about 40 dB softer than the base frequency. Let´s assume that the harmonics at 12 kHz (who are surely there, no denying that) are 60 dB softer than the base frequency. If the violin plays at 80 dB, the harmonics at 12 kHz can still be heard by people with good ears.
I have a hearing loss of about 60 dB at 10 kHz, I don´t know about 12 kHz. Let´s asssume the same. For me to hear the harmonics at 12 kHz, I´d need more than 40 dB gain at that frequency. This would be more gain than is used at any other frequency! In other words: This would be ridicoulously much gain!
And I´m talking about a live violin here. If you listen to your cd, at a nice level of, say, 60 dB. Then you´d even need more gain to hear something at 12 kHz.
So, what I´m trying to say: Even with a mild loss, you´d need very strong amplification to hear the very soft overtones present at very high frequencies.
Also, in every day situations, there is only noise at 12 kHz. So you´d hear much more noise. And if you use the 12 kHz amplification for music only, you won´t be used to it and find everything sharp and tinny.
People with young, healthy ears have 0 dB loss at, say, 15 kHz. With ears like that I´m quite sure that there are interesting things to hear, especially for music. But for people - even with a mild loss only - those frequencies are out of reach.
Thanks for your detailed answer! At the moment I personally do not need an aid, but I work in the musicindustry. Therefore I also need the higher frequencies, so thats kinda the way my question arose. But reading your very insightful comment does make me think its indeed difficult to realise as most frequencyloss at the really high frequencies is so high db-wise its not possible to amplify that.
There is one advantage to being deaf at higher frequencies: a trip to the dentist is not so annoying! I used to hate the sound of the ultrasonic cleaner and the drill, and now I don’t hear anything of them. My hygienist wears noise-canceling devices to preserve her hearing.
High frequency aids are a necessity for anyone who either professionally or by way of a past time has/wants to hear sounds of nature, i.e., Bird Sounds…many contact calls of birds, (particularly those migrating at night), emit sounds (contact calls) that typically are anywhere from/between 8 kHz to 10 kHz…I used to hear such sounds listening naturally. Now I am seeking hearing aids that can boost signals specifically in those frequencies as my hearing is good up to 8 kHz…
