It might be possible that Phonak were concerned about the availability of the hypersonic chip. Its predecessor was the limiting factor in Infinio production and they couldn't manufacture it fast enough. Perhaps it is a risk good risk management strategy to have a non-hypersonic device available to ensure sales can continue proceeding if they have problems producing enough hypersonic chips to meet market demand.
Perhaps the Eon R is the only option available in specific markets or for specific providers? It could also be that it is available for insurance replacements (lost/damaged devices) of older non-Sphere devices which isn't an inconsiderable number of devices per year. Finally Eon R is available at the 30 level of technology whereas the Sphere product is not. Perhaps the 50 level of technology won't be available in the Sphere product in all markets, making the Eon R the only option available.
All of the above are good reasons to have a dual-product strategy.
I’ve had the EON Sphere 90s for about three days now, coming from Infinio Sphere 90s. Very early impression, but so far I’m pleased. Speech in noise and general clarity are definitely improved, and nothing seems to have gone backwards.
The biggest thing I’m noticing is that speech in difficult noisy areas seems more stable and much less prone to the warbling/garbling I sometimes got with the Infinio Sphere. In a kitchen with fans running and people talking, they handled it surprisingly well.
I’m still working on AutoSense behavior and when it moves into Spheric Speech in Loud Noise, so I’m not ready to make any grand claims yet. But as an actual user rather than going by the spec sheet, the improvement so far is real enough that I’m glad I upgraded.
wow, that's something. I'm just trialing the Sennheiser aids = Infinio I-90 (not sphere) and comparing against Marvel M-90's.... seven-year-old aids that are four model generations back, and I'm struggling to find noteworthy improvement!
Tomorrow I think that I'm going to switch back to my Marvels to see what I might be missing here.
Probably you have open fittings like open dome? I noticed much difference with I90 Sphere not only in non- Speech in Noise program, but also in Calm Situation. However, it is because I've got more occluded earpiece and more powerful receiver and added more gain in mid- and high frequencies.
Speech in noise and general clarity are definitely improved, and nothing seems to have gone backwards.
Wow, interesting, because theoretically, Eon Sphere shouldn't be better than Infinio Sphere Ultra in quiet and noise. Does Eon has the same receivers and earpiece as Infinio Sphere Ultra?
Yes, same M receivers and small vented domes. I understand that EON isn’t claimed to provide greater maximum speech separation than Infinio Sphere. But that’s not the same thing as saying it shouldn’t sound or perform better overall. EON also has AutoSense OS 8.0, earlier Spheric activation and 4.0.
Regardless of what theoretically should or shouldn’t be, the improvement was immediate and obvious to me. I’m not saying it’s revolutionary, but speech is clearer and more stable, especially in difficult noise, with much less of the warbling/garbling I sometimes had with the Infinio Sphere.
theoretically, Eon Sphere shouldn't be better than Infinio Sphere Ultra in quiet and noise.
This isn't quite correct. Autosense OS has been optimised to activate spheric speech clarity sooner and to remain in the speech in loud noise destination for longer when environmental sound levels drop, to ensure greater stability of performance across time.
In wind noise (which could be a quiet or noisy situation) we should expect an improvement in speech understanding and less wind noise annoyance.
Autosense OS has been optimised to activate spheric speech clarity sooner and to remain in the speech in loud noise destination for longer when environmental sound levels drop, to ensure greater stability of performance across time.
I know. Perhaps it's no problem for me, because during with Target software I set lower activation threshold for Spheric Speech in Noise in Autosense OS (then 6.0, now 7.0).
I read the Phonak whitepaper about less frequent exiting from that program in automatic mode, that's something Autosense 7.0 don't have.
I am skeptical about 4.0, as with any proprietary algorithms, which are mainly for initial acceptance of hearing aid, particularly for inexperienced users. And it is unverifiable by ? Nevertheless, someone can always try it.
I don't know your , but my experience is that mine thresholds are supposedly suitable for M receiver, but MUCH better effect (especially in noise) I had with at least P receiver. With M I had no positive experience.
I have power domes. Changed from L to M size, because I place it deep in bony part of ear canal to basically minimize occlusion effect.
I found out that Unitron domes are from nice thicker silicone so that they provide better feedback threshold than Phonak's.
I am very curious about Easyguard power domes. I don't know if Unitron has them.
Here's anectodal review of Phonak Eon vs. Infinio. He uses Easyguard power domes.
@hearingMac, experience of his dad about crispness is quite similar. to what you described in one of your post.
I wonder what make better crispness in programs which seems be non-Spheric. This is no better , because there is the same ERA chip as in Infinio. Sampling rate is supposedly the same. @Hearing_Potential, do you wondered about that?
EDIT: in comments under the video there's an info that Roger's high frequency loss is so profound that the SoundRecover2 is the most important feature. This is why Oticon products don't work good in his case.
It could be the new version of . It's impossible to know as it may just be getting new devices with electronics that are unaffected by moisture in the ear that makes a small difference. The receivers on the infinios should be replaced to control for this.
Based on the video I think this is a very good question. One part of the premise I would qualify, though: the fact that EON retains the ERA chip doesn’t mean the behavior has to be the same. That would be a little like saying a Mac can’t perform a task differently because Apple hasn’t changed the processor running that particular function. The software, algorithms and control logic running on the hardware can change substantially.
In fact, Phonak specifically describes AutoSense OS 8.0 as providing enhanced processing and more nuanced activation of Spheric features. There are also revised processing parameters elsewhere in EON, including 4.0. So even before considering Spheric itself, I don’t think “same ERA chip = same DSP” necessarily follows.
And EON Sphere isn’t completely the same hardware anyway. It retains ERA, but DEEPSONIC has been replaced by the new HYPERSONIC processor. Phonak primarily associates HYPERSONIC with Spheric Speech Clarity 3.0, so I would not automatically attribute improved sound in apparently non-Spheric situations to that chip. But it is another reason the overall processing architecture is not identical.
What interested me in the video is that Roger specifically says “crisp” does not mean simply more treble or more volume. He also describes the surroundings as clearer and more natural, and says he went through two meetings without having to touch his hearing-aid settings, whereas with his Infinio he normally would have adjusted them for different speakers. That sounds to me at least consistent with improved automatic processing rather than simply a tonal change.
My own experience has been surprisingly similar. With my current EON fitting I am getting clearer speech and much smoother automatic adaptation than I did with my I90s. Today, for example, I was in a very noisy parking garage and then a moderately noisy market. At several points I checked the myPhonak app and noted which Automatic program label it was displaying. During that period I saw Speech in Noise, Comfort in Noise and Spheric Speech in Loud Noise displayed at different times, while I remained able to understand speech and never actually heard or felt a transition occurring.
Obviously none of this tells us which part deserves the credit — AutoSense 8, APD4, Spheric processing, other firmware changes, the fitting, or some combination. And Roger’s comparison isn’t a controlled experiment either. But I don’t think the fact that ERA remains in the platform rules out better DSP behavior. If anything, I’d be interested in knowing what specifically changed in the non-Spheric processing path between Infinio and EON.
Hmm, I am a bit skeptical about proprietary algorithms, given that they prioritize initial comfort over audibility. However, I want to be wrong, perhaps finally DSLv5 and /3 has worthy alternative.
It's impossible to know as it may just be getting new devices with electronics that are unaffected by moisture in the ear that makes a small difference.
That may be indeed a case, even taking into account he uses Redux dryer.
One part of the premise I would qualify, though: the fact that EON retains the ERA chip doesn’t mean the DSP behavior has to be the same. That would be a little like saying a Mac can’t perform a task differently because Apple hasn’t changed the processor running that particular function. The software, algorithms and control logic running on the hardware can change substantially.
That is also the case when the same chip was used in Paradise (released in 2020) and Lumity (2022) generation, except that Lumity introduced much new features and that was announced officially. With Eons, improvements may be mainly "under the hood".
What interested me in the video is that Roger specifically says “crisp” does not mean simply more treble or more volume.
It should be noted that in comments under the video there is info that Roger's high frequency loss is so bad, so profound, to the point that SoundRecover2 is the most important feature for him.
So, even Oticon products with more stable high frequency gain isn't helpful in his case.
If anything, I’d be interested in knowing what specifically changed in the non-Spheric processing path between Infinio and EON.
I am also interested. @JordanK, perhaps you could make a trial out of curiosity, given that there is some imprvement and more active life than mine. However no pressure here, because I fully understand that you and me may consider Infinio Sphere 90 Ultra enough.
I picked up on this thread and have profound hearing loss. I wear Phonak Sphere i90 ’s and would be interested in seeing the video about EON referenced here but don’t know how to get it. Can someone please direct me to it.
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