Skip to content
HearingTracker
Log in

Programming hearing aids for music

This topic is closed.

30 replies3.6k viewsLast reply

Jump
Link to this topic
Edited

Hello!

For the past years I have been doing my own setups on my Oticon OPN 1 with Noah Wireless/Genie. Let me start by saying that I focus on two fronts: speech and music. I am comfortable with what I have speech-wise and believe any important improvement will only come with newer technology (such as MORE).

However, I cannot say I am satisfied with my music setup. A great part of my days I spend playing the acoustic guitar, singing, and listening to music. Please, I have two questions if anyone would be so kind as to offer me some advice:

1 – It seems all I do in the “music front” is to strip the hearing aid of all the premium and fancy features. I have read in many posts in this forum that the goal is to emulate analogic aids. So, if one seeks to improve music quality, is it worth making a move to Oticon MORE, for instance? I mean, is the core processing capability of my OPN 1 already good enough for musical purposes?

2 – It might be possible that I am not doing a good job programming for music. Usually, I set up a program for my acoustic guitar that also accommodates my singing. Then I copy that program, add some compression, and that is my listening to music program. After experimenting with Oticon’s VAC+ I have settled with since I read it works with less compression. I am having two problems: 1) I think my guitars could sound better; and 2) I have been getting fatigued pretty quickly since compression is minimum. Could someone refer me to a professional (or anyone else in this forum for that matter) to help me tweak my music programs? I could just export my Genie profile to send it by e-mail and I am willing to pay for the service (should I post this question in the forum?). Please note that my audiologist is no help and I am not really willing to go down that road again (booking appointments, leaving the house, trying to explain what I need, been sent home to test, getting frustrated, repeating the iteration 10 times, etc).

Thanks,
Andre

9 people in this conversation15 min readJump to latest

I’m not familiar with oticon’s software but I would recommend looking into articles by Marshall Chasin. What you are doing with the features makes sense. Nal-nl2 is more compressed for soft sounds, less compressed for loud sounds than v5 adult. Not sure about oticons VAC. One tip for live music is to have less compression but reduce the gain. You’ll lose out on speech intelligibility if it’s at a normal speech volume though. I’m not sure what direction you are adding compression in, but I take it you are trying to keep it from being too loud? In which case the less compression but low gain should be more linear-like. An additional suggestion is to see if you have any kind of control that can make the compressor act as though it is slow acting and single channel. Not all will allow you to go this far under the hood though

@e1405 said:

So, if one seeks to improve music quality, is it worth making a move to Oticon MORE, for instance? I mean, is the core processing capability of my OPN 1 already good enough for musical purposes?

The Oticon OPN is rated quite high by musicians, and music lovers.
The proprietary Music program suffices for most cases at it’s default.

You have quite an interesting , which could make it a challenge, for sure.

The Oticon More introduced a new Polaris processor chip, and added a program named MyMusic.

Here’s a link22 to the White paper on the specifics.

It is a lot of trial & error to make music come alive with hearing aids, but with perseverance, you can achieve satisfactory results.

@tenkan linked a couple of very good references, as well.

@e1405 said: (unavailable)

I simulated MORE 1 with my audiometry, wrote down the frequency gains, and manually inserted them into my OPN 1 programming session.

That’s a clever idea. Fingers crossed you get better results.

Edited

@Zebras, @oldmanjenkins44, @tenkan, @flashb1024. A few notes on my little experiment:

1 – I do not own a pair of MORE hearing aids. All I am doing is simulating the MyMusic program based on my audiometry, taking note of the frequency gains, and typing those values in the Music program of my OPN 1. I am using Oticon’s VAC+ formula.

2 – The suggested prescriptions are different, as you can see in the screenshots. The main difference seems to be the compression algorithm used. MyMusic (MORE) and Music (OPN) do not use the same. MyMusic uses less compression.

Music program (OPN 1)

Music

MyMusic program (MORE 1)

MyMusic

3 – Sound control is also different. MyMusic has only the first three dials from Comfort to Detail. The two closest to Detail are grayed out.

4 – The prescribed MyMusic program transposed to my OPN 1 is the best music program I have ever tried. And I am just beginning to tweak it. Both acoustic and classical guitars sound lively and natural. Streamed music to my sound bar never sounded better.

5 – I may be biased (too soon to say), but I feel that listening fatigue has also improved. It may have to do with compression. Linear compression can lead to a harsh listening experience. The compression algorithm used by MyMusic seems to be better at combining live music quality with listening comfort.

6 – The improved compression profile also allowed me to enjoy my guitars at lower volumes. Linear compression sounds great, but I feel I always end up playing a bit too loud. Having the right compression setup brings out that nice tone when I am playing gently.

7 – Maybe MORE is going to yield an even better musical experience. Hower, OPN 1 is quite a decent hearing aid if properly tuned up for music.

Update: almost a month with the “MORE MyMusic” program on my OPN 1. This is the best music program I have ever had in decades of hearing loss. By far, superior to any previous attempts within OPN 1 environment in Genie 2.

Given that music programs suppress most processing features, I wonder how much better the MORE 1 would be for live music compared to OPN 1. And I also wonder why Oticon did not update the “Music” algorithm for the OPNs. It seems like a new compression rationale would have done the trick.

@e1405 said:

It seems like a new compression rationale would have done the trick.

Some people have manually adjusted their Opn music program to be very similar to the new myMusic program and had better results.

Edited

Yup, same with me. What I meant is that Oticon could have easily enabled this MyMusic program for OPN too. It is just a new “formula”, software implementation.

@e1405 said:

What I meant is that Oticon could have easily enabled this MyMusic program for OPN too. It is just a new “formula”, software implementation.

Actually, Oticon stopped firmware updates for the OPN, and OPNS series because the velox processor was discontinued when the current More series was released.
The More uses a new enhanced Polaris processor.

The software is not backward compatible.

Kudos to you for applying the settings to your OPN’s

Thanks!

If I may speculate a bit… I think a firmware upgrade would not be necessary in this case. All it would take is Genie 2 being able to transfer a pre-determined fitted formula to OPN. I emulated it manually, it doesn’t look like a hardware or firmware constraint. I take it could have been easily implemented in the OPN environment in Genie 2 if Oticon had chosen to do so.

Edited

I am trialing the More 1 and now was able to take this little experiment to the next level. This is what I did:

I have the More 1 and the OPN 1 with the same . Programmed MyMusic on More 1 using VAC+ formula. Then manually emulated a copy of the “MyMusic” program into OPN 1 (typing all frequency gains manually).

Checking to see if everything matches, I found out that the compression ratios on MyMusic/More are a bit different than those in VAC+/OPN emulating MyMusic.

Then I created another VAC+ program in the More 1, typed the same frequency gains and disabled all processing features I had access to. Now the two programs are very similar.

Finally, I did an A-B comparison (MORE 1 vs OPN 1) playing a classical and an acoustic guitar. The difference in sound quality is minimal. I believe I would not be able to tell them apart in a blind comparison. Both sound great for music if you have them properly set up though.

@e1405 Could you do a comparison with an acoustic piano? I never had any problem with guitars after adjusting the music programs (-8dB lowest band and Compression ratio set an uniform 1.3 for Bernafon Chronos 9, Phonak Bolero B90 and Phonak Audéo M90). However, the sound produced by a piano still gave some problems.

Yes, that would be an interesting comparison. I will let you know if I come across an acoustic piano (trying to think where I could find one…).

New to the forum, but found this thread which is relevant to a question I have regarding Oticon More 1 and the MyMusic program. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I’m an acoustic guitarist trying to get my new Oticon 1’s “dialled in”. They are great for all-around audio, but when I pick strings on my guitar (especially the high E), I get a like a fast tremolo effect on the guitar note coming from the hearing devices. It is reduced a lot when on the MyMusic program, but I can still hear it slightly. Like a very fast quaver, and it kind of drives me nuts.

I’m working with the audio tech to tweak the settings of the MyMusic program, and the next step is to drag my guitar in and try some real-time tweaks.

I was hoping that others here may have had the same issue and could recommend an adjustment that is a known fix, if such a thing exists. We did try to take the feedback control fully off (it is set on “low”), but the devices started feeding back immediately. We didn’t try to turn the gain down as well, though, so I might explore that when I go back.

Does anyone have any hints or known fixes for such a phenomenon? Strumming sounds fine, and streaming music all sounds good: it’s just single notes from my live guitar that have the fast quavering sound.

Thanks for any assistance or advice…

Edited

In reply to @bryant

@bryant: I don’t see your so I am going to say what worked best for me: 1) disable feedback management, even if that implies you having a gain below target in the higher frequencies. The feedback control set to low won’t do it…; and 2) set the program up with as little compression as possible. In mine I have a compression ratio of 1:1 for both my ears, but my loss is mostly conductive in my left ear and mixed in my right ear. I am able to handle the 1:1 compression ratio, I do not know how comfortable you will be without compression. In my experience, if you feel fatigued with little to no compression you should equalize your program. It is likely that some frequencies are over amplified and that is not good. I used the audio I describe in this post to eq my music program. If you want to use it, just follow the instructions in the post and use a decent audio monitor (flat frequency response). If your hearing loss requires some compression, set up your music program without compression, then add compression back when the program is properly equalized.

Edit:
Here are some screenshots of my music program. I have tried all available formulas, to my hearing loss v5 has been the best for music. Note that the compression scheme is 1:1

P4a

P4b

P4c

Thank you all for your responses, and thank you e1405 for your detailed documentation. I’ve got an appointment booked for next week for a real-time adjustment session along with my guitar, and will use your recommendations as a starting point to see if a similar solution will apply in my case. I don’t have my available to share, but I’m in the -70 to -80+ range from 3000Hz to 8000 (-30 to -40 from 250 to 3000), so turning off feedback control and winding down the gain to compensate for its elimination may not be practical in my case. We may have to crank the gain down so much that the hearing aid becomes totally ineffective, rendering the exercise pointless. But we’ll give it try: we might be pleasantly surprised.

But I’m thinking that my high-end loss may possibly be too great to be able to forgo feedback control, and I may have to simply put up with the wavering effect as a result.

Thanks again, all.

In reply to @e1405

@e1405 said:
  1. disable feedback management, even if that implies you having a gain below target in the higher frequencies. The feedback control set to low won’t do it…

This is always off by default in the music program, of course if your adding a new “music” program using custom settings them you’ll need to manually turn off.

@e1405 said:

DSL v5 has been the best for music. Note that the compression scheme is 1:1

Yeah this formula is a lot like linear (analogue) so low compression, a lot of severe to profound losses like this one.

@bryant said:

so turning off feedback control and winding down the gain to compensate for its elimination may not be practical in my case

It’s off by default in the music program, all other features as well, would be good to start with this and then let your audiologist make any adjustments for you, I’m not a great believer in but for you on this music program, you could ask for it to be done to see if it helps you.

Related discussions