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Swimming with Phonak Life Lumity underwater aids

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What I dont understand is why/how they are marketing the Life line any different (“can use for swimming…”) than the rest of the Audeo Paradise models? My Paradise P90 show an rating of IP68. The Life model shows IP68. So they are the same waterproof/dustproof. Both can be used in salt or fresh water up to 50cm supposedly. Just a marketing gimmic?

@richardsondc said:

Both can be used in salt

Can you confirm that they can both be used in salt as a lot of audiologist have said the only difference is the Life is better with handling salt.

Phonak have been IP68 when I got my Phonak Venture in roughly 2016.

I’ve never seen that they can both be used in salt water etc.

Very confusing literature. I think its all marketing - my opinion.

Phonak Audéo Paradise Hearing Aids | Phonak2

Phonak Audéo™ Paradise hearing aid is for mild to profound hearing loss with features like speech understanding, personalized noise canceling and universal connectivity with unrivaled hearing experience

Website is clear as mud in regards to waterproof claim. Both units show IP68 rating. However they have a footnote stating Audeo Life is only model sweatproof tested. What the heck is that? And how is that different than waterproof submersion testing? Seems like a marketing gimic. maybe they are refering to receivers?

I agree, salt water is way worse than fresh water for anything and everything corrosion wise. But if it is waterproof, the waterproof-ness of a device does not change whether its salt or fresh water. There is no exception or different waterproof rating or test whether you dunk it in salt or fresh.

But back to the thread… I hope they continue working great for the original poster. I do appreciate my P90s are waterproof and I can wear them in the shower (by mistake) and not ruin them!

@richardsondc said:

However they have a footnote stating Audeo Life is only model sweatproof tested. What the heck is that?

Sweat means you release salt so it’s saying they are more able to handle salt.

This whole discussion sounds like swimming with sharks to me… IPwhatever does not address longevity of your , imho.

I just replaced my Widex Beyond 440s with Widex Moments 440 with custom molds. Previously a Phonak wearer for many years but the Widex sound won me over (I’m a musician). On the beach and other areas where I may sweat I use my backup hearing aids.

I feel a certain reassurance knowing that my Lumity Life hearing aids are supposedly waterproof, but I have been too afraid to put them all the way through their paces. So far, I have worn them many many times while sweating a lot, frequently with sopping wet hair after swimming or bathing, several times hanging out in the rain, once during a water balloon and water squirting fight, once canoeing in a salty mist, and once accidentally for the first minute of a shower. So far so good. I would love to hear updates from the original poster @StevenS as well as any one else about what this model has or has not survived.

You can find another thread on an earlier person’s test of their water uses if you search. It was from BlueJay if I remember right.
Summary - after swimming with them they failed.

In reply to @StevenS

Here is s link to Dr. Cliff’s review of Lumity Life waterproofing

I’m glad to see that Dr. Cliff found very much the same thing as my experience. He said he tried to kill the Phonak Life Limitys with water but could not do so. My new pair survived a one week vacation in pools and salt water with no problems.

When I returned I saw my audiologist with some of the questions that came up on the forum. At risk of sounding like a shill for Phonak, almost all of it was good:

  1. The aids are rated at IP68 because there is no higher rating. The seals are far better than any other IP68 rated hearing aid.

  2. My audio has fitted a few pair and has not yet had any problems. I showed her the responses on this forum and the high degree of skepticism. She said as far as she knows, the waterproofing is solid and works well.

  3. More importantly, my audio told me that Phonak will absolutely stand behind the warranty for the full period of the warranty, which I believe is 3 years. She said that Phonak will replace the hearing aids as often as necessary if there is any water damage and will raise no questions about it.

  4. There are a few disadvantages, which I think I mentioned. The custom molds cannot be vented, which for me causes an occlusion effect. It only comes in rechargeable. I prefer batteries, but I know that rechargeable is a plus to many ha users. I understand that the reason for this is that the unit must be completely sealed without an opening battery door.

  5. The bluetooth works great. However, during swimming, the bluetooth signal cuts out when your head goes below water so it’s hard to listen to music while swimming.

On the whole, I like these aids a lot as a secondary pair. I’m not about to give up my Widex Moment aids, but it is great to have the Phonaks on vacation.

@StevenS said:

Phonak will absolutely stand behind the warranty for the full period of the warranty, which I believe is 3 years. She said that Phonak will replace the hearing aids as often as necessary if there is any water damage and will raise no questions about it.

Hey that is great news that you’ve put your Lumity Life aids to the water/dive test! I also wonder if having a CUSTOM mold over the speaker is the key? Initially, I had my Lumity Life aids fit with custom silicone tips over the speakers. Unfortunately, I am allergic to that material, so I had to swap those with the smoke-colored double dome molds3. Can you show us a picture of the molds on your speakers?

Yeah. I’d also say you’ve been SUPER lucky so far. Even unvented, custom molds will work their way out of one’s ear canal during normal wear (eating, yawning, speaking, laughing, etc., will shift the molds backwards out of the ear canal). I used a pair of these lanyards16 to hold the aids behind my ear and never worry about losing them.

With just the double silicone molds on my speakers, I managed to KILL the first pair I had after 2 short swims in the pool. During the first swim, the aids repeatedly “lost contact” with each other non-stop. That produced a non-stop musical tone of 5 notes the entire time I swam.

Second time I swam with them on, the right aid was permanently fritzed. Each time, I’d put my aids in a very high end ReDux dryer. But after that second short swim of just 20 min, the right aid never recovered. It just hummed and buzzed. That’s when I took them back for the replacement.

I never dove, just had the aids in and a snorkel mask on, so I know I didn’t go below maybe 6" in the water.

I would not want completely unvented molds (even tho they may help me hear better and keep water out). I agree that the sound quality would be annoyingly occluded.

I had dreams of wearing these Lumity Life aids for water sports, having seen Dr Cliff’s rosey result trying to kill them with moisture after 100 hours. It only took me 2 swims of 20 min each to kill my pair. After I got the replacement, I’ve never ever EVER wore them in any kind of water sport activity again.

I’m still very happy with these Lumity Life aids for their improved speech comprehension, but as for their being waterproof? I am living proof that marketing line was a lie for me and how I used them. Just sayin’. Please show my post to your audiologist. I shared these observations with my 2 audiologists (present and past)

In reply to @richardsondc

@richardsondc said:

Website is clear as mud in regards to waterproof claim. Both units show IP68 rating. However they have a footnote stating Audeo Life is only model sweatproof tested. What the heck is that? And how is that different than waterproof submersion testing? Seems like a marketing gimic. maybe they are refering to receivers?

Come to think of it, Phonak never mentioned if they’d done the water test with these Lumity Life aids inside a sealed Ziplock baggie. With that added protection, one could take 'em down 18".

I can only say that my experience with the double domes over the speakers ended in disaster. Love that photo of the guy kayaking with a HUGE smile on his face, LOL. He looks like he’s up for a royal dunking with no regrets. Me? I’m jaded. I’ve learned my lesson. I’m never taking them on the water like that where there is a possibility of total immersion. I wouldn’t even risk laying them in a shallow saucer with a TBSP of water.

Nope. I got my replacement pair and felt very grateful for that. Cuz the weakest link has to be right at the tip of the speaker. That is NOT encased in any kind of waterproof material. The proof? I just changed out the waxguards right there, so I can see a nice HOLE leading right down into the electronics of the speaker.

It’s still a dream of mine that someone will come out with a truly waterproof aid, and I think the sealed, induction rechargeable unit is a step in that direction. But like a screen door in a submarine … there is still the weakest link to look into.

In reply to @StevenS

@StevenS said:

The custom molds cannot be vented

Excuse my ignorance, but I’m not sure what “custom” designates here. I have had Phonak cShell molds which are “custom” – like all molds – in that they are made from molds of one’s ear openings. And the cShells have various kinds and degrees of venting available. The Phonak Lumity L-RL (waterproof) model can use cShell coupling.

Afterthought: if you’re going to the beach, couldn’t you use cShells by the seashore?

In reply to @brec

@brec said:

I’m not sure what “custom” designates here

Just guessing that in the context here, “custom” means an impression was taken of the ear canal where the mold would have to fit nice and snug. The custom mold can be made in titanium, hard silicone, so-called hypo-allergenic acrylic, or that flesh-colored plastic material.

Edited

So I’m not the only one who remembers, I trust fondly, entertainment back in the good old days despite having only four channels that all went off the air about midnight or so, to the time of our National Anthem.

I wonder how they cover up the mics’ openings. I assume that they have some kind of waterproof membrane to cover it up, yet still allow air vibration to pass through somehow. They can seal in all the other spots, but this here is THE weak link in my opinion → the mics’ ports openings.

My question is this: do they test it for long term usage using salt water or plain water? Plain water will dry up with generally no deposit left behind. Salt water will dry up with salt deposit left behind. Over time, layers of salt will be deposited one on top of the other until it’s thick enough to inhibit the air transmission of the sound to the mic’s opening.

Does Phonak give any instruction on how to rinse off the aids after each salt water use?

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