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Thoughts On Frequency Shifting?

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I recently purchased Philips 9050 at Costco. Because of severe ski-slope loss, the Tech recommended the Freq Shifting function be enabled. Initially it was quite disturbing, as all speech transformed the sound S into SH. It sounded like everybody had a lisp. I turned it off (I have self-programming equip), and now evaluating without Freq Shifting. So far, while the S to SH has been removed, speech in general seems harsher and less articulated. It’s going to take me longer to decide how I want to go forward, but I was curious about other people’s experience. Is the constant lisping of Freq Shifting any value to them understanding speech?

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Edited

Ive been using frequency shifting in its various forms since 2008. I find it incredibly useful, despite the distortions it can bring. A lot of people dislike it.

For myself, I can’t really hear the S, SH, CH, or even the lightly pronounced F, T, and Ps without the feature on. My speech intelligibility scores went up quite a bit from frequency shifting. I can also hear the birds now. In addition to real world testing, I recommend searching for a bird call video on YouTube. You can also look for videos that teach people how to pronounce words with “S” and SH" - depending on the fitting software, the audiologist should be able to dial back the strength of the frequency shifting so that the S and SH sounds are more distinctive and don’t overlap. They can move the start point of the frequency shifting higher.

Keep doing what you are doing. Maybe try a custom mold that occludes a bit (if needed) and reach those highs with (real ear measurement) and straightforward gain in the highs and see how you do. Then, try out frequency shifting to get to those highs, with or without a custom mold.

We have similar hearing losses. I experience that harshness with lots of gain in the highs. I’d also describe it as thin, shrill and less useful overall. And I never got used to it (I tried for years).

My experience was similar to yours - see if this link works:
https://forum.hearingtracker.com/t/phonak-making-s-sound-into-sh-sound-any-ideas/98747/49
Got it turned off and Ss no longer sound like Shs which is good, but if it might help speech discrimination maybe I bailed too early. Was quite disconcerting and un-natural sounding.

Gave back the Phonak, trialing a new ReSound which is no better than my three-year-old ReSound and will probably give that back too, and wait (try to stay breathing/living) another year to see what comes around.

@BoCat said:

Gave back the Phonak, trialing a new ReSound which is no better than my three-year-old ReSound and will probably give that back too, and wait (try to stay breathing/living) another year to see what comes around.

You trialed Resound Vivia and Phonak I90 Sphere monaurally?

@Bimodal_user said:

You trialed Resound Vivia and Phonak I90 Sphere monaurally?

… well, yes. I have a feeling I stepped in something questionable but am too stupid to understand what I did wrong.
The Phonak was: Phonak Naida Lumity 90 SP according to the fitter. The ReSound paperwork says ENZO Q 98 if that is informative at all. And yes, monaurally because nobody in Houston wants to try a cochlear implant on my Left ear, which has been dead for about 40 years; and I do not want to simply discard what I still have in my Right ear (roll the dice, so to speak).

Your comments / criticisms are welcome and actually requested. How did I screw this up?

In reply to @Dave_Morgan

Thx Dave. I’m not an Audiologist, but I see a lot of confusion regarding Freq Shifting. It really is a trade-off, and my understanding is the “higher freq” S is shifted into the “lower freq” SH, so there really is no fine-tuning it to sound like S if using Freq Shifting. I believe my best path at this time is to make a program for both, so I can change with a touch of the switch. I do not have in my program. What value would that provide?

@Ed_R1 said:

so there really is no fine-tuning it to sound like S if using Freq Shifting

You can always find tune in the software, it’s not just “on” or “off”

@Ed_R1 said:

I do not have REM in my program. What value would that provide?

Not a lot if anything, it’s just another tool in the toolbox for testing purposes, it’s definitely not the holy grail of fitting as much as people like to harp on about, now you look at Widex models they don’t even bother with it, the latest Allure has an all updated feature they eliminate the need for one of the most expensive pieces of equipment some clinic’s buy.

@tenkan said:

Enzo very old technology behind that housing, the Lumity platform are far superior

Thanks! Very illuminating… I need to ask her why she had me try the Enzo, having rejected the Lumity as no better than my old ReSound.

In reply to @tenkan

Screenshot (34)
This is a screenshot “As-Found” from Costco programming which I’m keeping for a reference. I’m trying to learn more about human hearing before making Fine-Tune adjustments. It seems the 3 variables are Intensity, Destination Band, or Hi Freq Band. Any recommendations on what to expect from changing each variable? Thx tenkan.

In reply to @BoCat

@BoCat said:

The Phonak was: Phonak Naida Lumity 90 SP BTE according to the fitter. The ReSound paperwork says ENZO Q 98 if that is informative at all.

I am surprised. Lumity is an almost 3-year-old platform—a bit obsolete—and Resound ENZO is quite old! I am curious what the price of them is in your case.

@BoCat said:

And yes, monaurally because nobody in Houston wants to try a cochlear implant on my Left ear, which has been dead for about 40 years;

Maybe you should find help elsewhere. I recommend Facebook group:

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

There are many people whou receiver after several dozens of deafness:

Any recommendations - significant loss
Just saw on Facebook: [Screenshot_20241219_025836_Facebook] [Screenshot_20241219_025803_Facebook] 50 years of unilateral deafness, quite a time! I had 20–21 years of left ear complete deafness (mumps) before CI implantation. Then, I used it for three years, from morning to night. I wasn’t satisfied, despite not expecting more than a bit of word recognition, so I put the sound processor in a drawer. Almost 7 years of disuse. Then, after @Raudrive’s advice, I started to try isolating my bet…

And:

Any recommendations - significant loss
[Screenshot_20241219_051302_Facebook] [Screenshot_20241219_051320_Facebook]

.

@BoCat said:

and I do not want to simply discard what I still have in my Right ear (roll the dice, so to speak).

If your right ear can still benefit from a hearing aid, no one should propose a cochlear implant in that ear.

@BoCat said:

Your comments / criticisms are welcome and actually requested. How did I screw this up?

You’re welcome. No, I wouldn’t use such a firm statement like “screw up”. The huge mistake could be not asking anywhere.

Edited

In reply to @BoCat

@BoCat, I don’t know if you’re pressured to buy a new hearing aid now. I mention this because, while I am not a fan of procrastinating on hearing aid/cochlear implant decisions, exceptionally waiting can now be a good thing…

It’s because Cochlear (and probably Advanced Bionics) test new coding strategy (FMS vs. currently used ACE, at least in Cochlear ) and new internal devices of CI system.

Advanced Bionics may soon release the new hearing aid Naida Link (Infinio? who knows), which could connect bimodally with a new sound processor.

In reply to @Ed_R1

Looking at your you have a very tough loss. Any idea what your word recognition scores are? (Should be recorded on your Costco audiogram) Curious why you aren’t using ?

Callisto™ | Frequency Lowering Verification | Interacoustics4

In this Callisto™ quick guide, you'll learn how to determine if you should apply and how to verify the frequency lowering feature.

Useful links:

(from 6:48):

Edited
My comparison of Phonak Infinio Sphere with new Resound Vivia
@DamonHill I wouldn’t put it that way—it’s just different and doesn’t meet my specific needs. Resound doesn’t offer as much detailed control over frequency shifting as Phonak does. It provides four preset options: very mild, mild, moderate, and strong, each with its own maximum audible input and output frequencies. None of the settings work well for me personally, but they could be ideal for someone else.

Probably the most comprehensive article about /transposition/compression, etc.

In reply to @Bimodal_user

Bimodal_user, rather than continue to hijack the thread that Ed_R1 started about frequency shifting, I’m going to reply to you by PM.

The frequency shifting discussion is very interesting and helpful - continues to educate me about an issue I had with the Phonak I tried, so I will watch this thread anyway. And will read the article you linked about Infinio Sphere and Resound Vivia.

In reply to @Ed_R1

Actually I can’t tell what would be better in your situation exactly, because I don’t use Oticon/Phillips models, do you have Hearsuite software? but if you do have a copy of Hearsuite software you can easily see what the changes do, changing the kHz bands is obvious, shift into different , you’d need to experiment a bit to know exactly what your happy with, the audiologist won’t know this of course because he/her can’t hear what you do, it’s always trial and error with some of us and I believe this is one of the reasons work’s so well for a lot of people.
Here’s some screenshots of frequency lowering on and off and the different frequency bands that your Audiologist can try/set up.

20250322_123949

Off.

phillips 3

On.

phillips

In reply to @Dave_Morgan

This sounds like the best path to pursue. It may take weeks to evaluate these tweaks, best to make small changes. That said, I believe for my situation some form of Freq Lowering improves my hearing.

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