Rechargeable aids: wanted by customers or by factories?

Interestingly, this debate does not exist for mobile phones, e-readers, tablets, portable electric fans, smartwatches, earbuds- essentially any device that runs out of power rapidly. Batteries are just no longer of this age…

@RobHooft said:

this debate does not exist for…essentially any device that runs out of power rapidly. Batteries are just no longer of this age…

There’s something about the subject of disposable HA batteries that seems to make people crazy, no offense meant. Not just a difference of opinion, but intolerance of disagreement. Your posts are usually informed and reasoned, but here you’re using a technically invalid analogy to declare that the battery argument is over, full stop.

Disposable hearing aid batteries, zinc-air, have a high energy density that distinguishes them from other battery technologies. They have a couple of drawbacks that render them unsuitable for the other uses you mentioned. The biggest one, I think, is that they lose power inexorably once the tab is pulled, so they’ll go dead inside a device even when the device isn’t being used. Another drawback is their limitation on current draw (power output).

These drawbacks don’t prevent them from being used in hearing aids, where they’ve been used for many years. Their cost is also very reasonable. These days, when online commerce makes commodity products available to everyone at lower cost, they’re arguably dirt-cheap.

You might answer, that was then and this is now. Hearing aids now use AI which is very power-hungry. Two words: Oticon Verit. It seems to be the same AI as Oticon Intent, but powered by disposable batteries.

Then there’s the general disposables-can’t-power-other-advanced-features argument. This seems to be aimed mainly at accelerometer-based features. But accelerometers can be powered by zinc-air, and their absence in disposable battery aids isn’t because of power or voltage issues, but apparently rather due to packaging issues that could be solved if a manufacturer wanted to.

Just wanted to set the record straight.

You can still use your cell phone while it’s plugged in and charging, so that’s a pretty big difference. And since Apple pushed things a bit too far with “you’ll just have to buy a new phone once the battery wears out in 2-3 years,” we now see “right to repair” laws that require manufacturers to allow the rechargeable batteries to be easily replaced. I’m not sure how the first problem could ever be solved with hearing aids, but solving the second would probably go a long a long way towards getting people to accept them.

Don’t get me wrong, I use rechargeables and love them. But if I were completely dependent on them for communication the way people with more severe losses might be, knowing they’d be unusable for 30+ minutes when they ran out of juice would bother me a lot more.

And I forgot: my electric toothbrush, shaver, screwdrivers, Wifi-enabled otoscope, flashlights, Dremmel-like tool, wireless headphones- all powered by rechargeable batteries. In the old (NiH) days such devices (like the screwdrivers) would rapidly run out of juice when sitting in a drawer, but that is thankfully no longer the case. Almost no portable appliances with batteries here.

In my earlier post I was merely commenting on this trend, and pointing out that a preference for rechargeables is not, imho, “crazy”. Note also that:

“Rechargeable hearing aids and their integrated power systems represent roughly 80% of current global hearing aid sales..”

Hearing Healthcare Devices Market Size, Share & Regional Outlook 2035

Hearing Healthcare Devices Market size is anticipated to be valued at USD 10138.15 million in 2026, with a projected growth to USD 16826.16 million by 2035 at a CAGR of 5.79%.

And my cheap prediction is that this number is rising even further- so manufacturers are “rewarded” by the market as they pursue this trend, oblivious to the kicking and streaming of a shrinking minority.

Concerns the “mileage anxiety” problem: The Sphere shows how that can be dealt with, holding a generous charge even for insomniacs who sleep less than two hours a night.

CombatWoman’s concern with capacity loss and replacement is (really) the only relevant concern here, imho- and EU regulators are indeed, thankfully, breathing into the industry’s neck. You really cannot have a 3,000$ device with a sealed-in battery; the writing is on the wall even for Apple now.
What I still don’t understand is why a rechargeable battery cannot just sit in the HA drawers that now (or used to) hold disposables. OK, it would be hard to make such HAs waterproof, but you could seal that drawer with a rubber ring and screws, and/or insulate the contact points from the bulk of the electronics. Anyway, I personally distrust all such “waterproof” claims anyway, removing HAs before sweating or in rain, so this would change nothing for me.

The first hearing aids to get an IP68 rating were Siemens Aquaris which had a disposable battery. Many zinc-air aids achieve this, including Phonak Audeo Lumity zinc-air devices including virto devices. The main reason for rechargeable batteries being introduced from a technical point of view is the inability to power motion sensors in modern devices on a zinc-air battery. On-device AI came later.

Motion sensors draw too much power to be supported using zinc-air battery technology. That is why verit isn’t intent with different battery technology.

Zinc-air battery powered devices aren’t going anywhere, but demand for them has fallen in the premium segment where you find some people having two sets of devices. For mid and lower tier products they’re still popular options.

Most people aren’t aware of this, but Widex’s battery life ratings are for the device at 6 years old, so you’ll get a much longer run time out of them when they’re brand new.

@Hearing_Potential said:

Motion sensors draw too much power to be supported using zinc-air battery technology.

Where did you get this from? The information I found says otherwise. See my post earlier in this thread:

https://forum.hearingtracker.com/t/rechargeable-aids-wanted-by-customers-or-by-factories/107847/124?u=x475aws

@Hearing_Potential said:

Other manufacturers haven’t been able to do it and that is the reason they give.

In something that can be linked to, or just via informal communication with reps and such?

Come to think of it, the proposition that accelerometers are power-hungry was always dubious. I doubt the manufacturers would add a component that significantly reduces rechargeable battery runtime unless it made a big difference in hearing performance.

My rechargeable batteries don’t last long enough for me. Dead by 7:00 pm often.

I’d rather have batteries

DaveL

I use to be hardcore for replaceable batteries.. I have always worn Siemens/Signia. My VA AuD said the new IX models only came with chargeable batteries since I had 90 days to change I went with them. At end of the day I’m never below 60% including heavy streaming. Fooling around I skipped charging them a couple of nights and still got through the second day just fine. The charger will charge them at least 3 times. I’ll never go back. YMMV

@x475aws said:

Some of us want our hearing prostheses to stay as simple and reliable as possible, without depending on power systems other than the little batteries we can easily carry around.

I have always carried hearing aid case in my pocket/bag when I was going anywhere. Inside that case there was one new zinc-air disposable battery during times with Phonak Bolero V70-P.

So, now with Infinio Sphere I have almost the same size case with built-in battery. So I have no differences regarding carrying something with me. So I don’t understand exactly why it’s called with big words like “a power system”.

Now I don’t have embarrassing moments like running out disposable in the middle of the talking (in my case warning beeps were definitely too late, even definitely too late, a few minutes or even just before automatically turning off).

I usually have also 10-20 Ah powerbank in my bag, which can extend HA use even further if necessary.

What I see in this discussion is also:

1. We discuss about individual feature of hearing aids separately, but we don’t take into account that there is many features working simultaneously, although often with different intensities

2. Phonak have probably the most sophisticated AI feature in the industry (maybe Fortell competes with him). It’s because (among others) its Spheric program is useful also in monaural conditions. For what I know (correct me if I am wrong), DNN in another brand HA provides limited benefits when used monaurally.

Also test result from HearAdvisor suggest more powerful AI (or at least better hearing in noise) in Phonak Infinio Sphere. That requires much constant stable power, while using Bluetooth LE, motion sensor, etc.

I am not write it to uncritically praise Phonak, I myself had previously considered switching from Phonak Paradise to Oticon due to the better treble gain in the latter.

Do I miss the times when my Bolero V70-P could run for 6 days on 1 disposable battery? Yes! But I also know that technical progress in electronics is often associated with compromises, and in the case of disposable batteries, this progress is not existing.

Of course, rechargeables have their advantages, and everyone can weigh the pros and cons of both kinds of aids against their own priorities, like a lot of other choices in life.

The reason I’m staying with this topic is because I’m trying to dispel the notion that zinc-air batteries can’t support the current direction of hearing aid development, so insisting on these aids means living in the past. My work isn’t done, given that your post seems to repeat that notion:

@Bimodal_user said:

in the case of disposable batteries, this progress is not existing.

But that’s not true. Just talking about Oticon, everyone thought that Real was the end of the line for Oticon zinc-air aids, and all further improvements would be rechargeable only. Yet Verit came out earlier this year, with the same DNN as Intent and up-to-date connectivity. That’s the kind of progress which wasn’t supposed to be possible.

We all know that lithium-ion batteries can supply higher current levels than zinc-air, at a higher voltage and thus higher power. The implications of this fact for hearing aid development are a different matter. Chip technology is changing, even if zinc-air batteries aren’t. Only someone currently working in hearing aid engineering knows what’s possible and what’s coming. People in the know may be reading these forums, but I doubt they’re able to say what they know.

@x475aws said:

I’m trying to dispel the notion that zinc-air batteries can’t support the current direction of hearing aid development

.

You are doing a great job with the counterpoints and examples while being respectful and courteous.

Much appreciated‼️

Starkey has the 312 model that is infused with AI. I have their Soundgear label from Costco.

You can rip my HA with disposable batteries from my cold dead hand. I much prefer to deal with replacing battery once every 2-3 weeks than deal with putting them on chargers every night. And having to send HA to service when rechargble batteries couldn’t be charged anymore.