Rechargeable aids: wanted by customers or by factories?

I don’t know, probably bugs some people….Although I really do try to be conscious of others and not do it when folks are nearby

All I know is my puppy ate my KS9s once, with battery compartment open, but batteries in place. The vet pointed out there wasn’t much to do about it. Maybe they’d show up on x-rays, but then what would we do? Major surgery to try and recover them? She advised it was better to hope they passed.

The Costco audiologist who took care of the claim for replacement under warranty told me it’s common that dogs eat aids [when people get as stupid and careless as I was that time]. Surely if zinc air batteries killed dogs who do that, there’d be a rash of them and warnings all over dog forums, but there aren’t.

My “puppy” is now 5-1/2 and has never had any ill effects.

This is right up your alley

Attached is Oticon’s description of their feedback manager and how it intoduces Warble:

Spectro-Temporal Modulation

Spectro-temporal modulations (STM) are patterns that change over time across the 28 channels in the hearing aid. STMs act as a nearly instantaneous breaker signal that stops the buildup of a feedback loop. They can be visualized on a spectrogram as a striped pattern with a cycle period of 32 ms. In Figure 1, the stripes at approximately 3000 Hz represent low-energy areas, indicating that the output from the speaker is reduced for 16 ms. These low-energy periods are followed by periods of fully restored gain (also 16 ms). Of note, it takes approximately 60 ms for audible feedback to be detected and prevented in the system. Importantly, STM is only applied in at-risk feedback channels, and only for the duration of risk. All other channels are unaffected by OSO. Research addressing STMs indicates that speech-like modifications to signals are more difficult for people with hearing loss to perceive, than for those with normal hearing.5,6
Figure 1. Top spectrogram shows audible feedback primarily (not exclusively) at 2-3kHz at 0.4-0.7 sec. Bottom spectrogram is identical but with STM engaged. Note: Audible feedback is eliminated and speech is preserved in the bottom spectrogram.

Figure 1. Top spectrogram shows audible feedback primarily (not exclusively) at 2-3kHz at 0.4-0.7 sec. Bottom spectrogram is identical but with STM engaged. Note: Audible feedback is eliminated and speech is preserved in the bottom spectrogram.

I know you’ll enjoy this use of STM, which is the culprit in Oticon aids which causes TTTF, prior to the Feedback Manager introduced with the More series, which allows the programmer to turn it off for people like me!

@rosetribal said:

my puppy ate my KS9s

Recheargable HAs always spend their offtime in (reasonably) puppy-proof charging boxes, another argument to prefer those.

That’s the piece I was hand-waving at, and I find their numbers less comfortable than my own description.

I called the canceller something that mistakes a held tone for its own echo. Oticon’s answer is to stop the loop before it can build, punching a 16 millisecond hole in gain and restoring it for 16, only in the channels at risk and only while the risk lasts. So they aren’t trying to out-think the ambiguity. They refuse to let the loop close long enough for it to matter. I like that better than what I said.

The number that stops me is the 60 milliseconds to catch and kill audible feedback. So what you hear as a music listener isn’t my estimator failing. It’s my estimator working, with a floor under how fast anything can work. Every design has that floor. Mine does too.

I think the honest cost sits in the same paragraph. A striped pattern at 32 millisecond period is a modulation, and modulation is what speech is made of. They cite research that people with hearing loss perceive speech-like modification less readily than people without. I’ll grant that’s a real defence of the choice. It also reads to me as an argument that the people least able to hear the artefact are the ones wearing it, and I’m not sure I’d want to lean on that.

Sustained pure tones stay the hard case for all of us. I don’t think anyone has solved it. We’ve moved it around.

@rosetribal said:

We all prefer what we prefer

Well said. “I prefer” to set mine on a shelf in my closet while getting undressed. Then wipe them off with a microfiber cloth before putting into the charger near my sink. When I forget the charger part there is only 20% remaining charge the next morning. PITA.

Another is at the barber shop. I get in the chair and have to open the app to mute before taking them out - or less desirable (to me) is to hold down buttons until they shut off. Otherwise they squeal. Opening battery doors on the other hand is near instantaneous.

@luogangan said:

Sustained pure tones stay the hard case for all of us. I don’t think anyone has solved it. We’ve moved it ar

Actually since the release of the Oticon More a Feedback manager setting was introduced to minimize the TTTF. Basically, it can be adjusted for Left/Right/Both, and the settings are Normal (TTTF will occur for me) Low(TTTF gone for me in most cases) and Off (No TTTF, but maybe minor feedback squeal when near a surface).

With the new Reveal line they are touting more advanced feedback mgt., and this quote: Oticon Reveal delivers our best-ever stability and range when streaming, for more freedom and confidence.

Of course, this is all marketing fluff, but we’ll soon get 1st hands on reviews, I hope.

My Intents are 3 years old, and hopefully the VA will reveal the Reveals in November, at which time I may give them a try.

The Resound and Resound clone HAs allow powering on and off by holding the button down for 5 seconds.

I haven’t timed it, but my brand-new Sennhesiers are about 5 seconds off, then another 5 seconds on…. and often I have to try again because the buttons are a little hard to push. It’s an awkward thing that was, as @shootist said was nearly instantaneous in my beloved Phonak Marvel M-90-13’s

And in flipping through the settings yesterday with my new aids, I was reminded of a gotcha that I’d found when i had a loaner set from my previous audiologist… if teh aids are set to power on when uyou pull them out of the charger in the morning…. well guess what happens if the power fails momentarily at 1AM. They’d turn on and you’ll wake to find hearing aids that are 4 hours or whatever into the day.

I should have probably tested what these do since the charger has it’s own battery. Maybe they’ll just continue to charge, so maybe that’s no longer an issue

But still, I just set mine to NOT power on when removed…so now I have to do the 5-second button push to turn them on

also, I’m wondering how well this charger with it’s own battery pack baked in, will hold up long term if it’s left plugged in all the time….

@x475aws said:

. A reset on some rechargeable aids, from what I’ve read here, involves putting them into the charger. So in the event of a glitch you could be SOL if you don’t carry the charger with you.

The mfg instructions always say to reset rechargeables they should be put in the charger, but I’ve been using them since Oticon released the OPN S in 2019.

I always reset by pressing volume down buttons on the aids. 4 sec= off 3 sec=on. Pretty sure all makes are the same.

I know you’re a disposable user, but we rechargeable users get by just fine , and never been SOL-

@cvkemp said:

Good for you if that is your desire. I

ha ha.... yep, except not good for me since the choice for 13 cells is no longer a choice.

@1Viking said:

An overnight charge (while you sleep) provides for a very full day of use.

Barely...maybe.

My 3-day old rechargeable aid I just picked up Monday are barely holding. It's 7:40PM and they are 39% and 28% state of charge. Some streaming today but not a lot. I'm generally fairly early to bed so they'll last me ok tonight but once in a while we'll go to a show or something and I might be up pushing midnight or so. Yeah they'll still probably last now, but how about a year or three down the road when the batteries degrade a bit?

Interestingly enough just this morning I ran up against it with my phone. Pointing to exactly the same range anxiety that many of us have with rechargeable aids. I had plugged in my phone last night but I suppose that I didn't get the plug engaged properly, woke up to a phone that was something much less than 10% state of charge. It's an older phone so the battery doesn't last nearly as long as it used to.... but thankfully it still charges very fast. I haven't really timed it but the manufacturer claims 0% to 100% in about 30 minutes with the right charger, or to 50% in about 14 minutes. I'd say that's in the right ballpark of reality.

If my aids charged that fast I wouldn't really be worried! Per a google search, these Sonite Rise aids take 3 hours ...not even in the same solar system!

15 minutes: Provides a quick charge for a few hours of basic use.

1 hour: Charges the battery to roughly 40%.

2 hours: Charges the battery to roughly 70%.

3 hours: Reaches a complete 100% charge

I think I'm going to eventually need to buy 2 or maybe 3 of these battery pack chargers...one for my car, one for my travel bag, and one for home so that I'll have the option for a quick 10-15 minute top up here and there....

I'm trying to give them a fair chance...but this ain't good.

Well, I did say "Pretty Sure" not positively, but I get your point.

You say the manual says use the buttons, so if it isn't working you'll have to get costco to program them. I'd think that would be default, BUT..I'm "Pretty Sure" I better not say:wink:

update. Not quite 10PM and my phone is beeping that my aid is low and will shut off soon. right is indicating 19% ugh

How much audio streaming are you doing and how many devices are you connected to? What's your degree of hearing loss and which receivers (power level) are attached to the aids?