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Initially it was Costco with the Rexton, I then purchased the Starkeys from an online provider, who alos had a physical location. Fortunetly for me there is a University near by that has an outstanding audiology doctorate program with access to all the different brands & great audiologists & students. The orginally provider did suggest the phonaks, however I was hesitant due to the size and battery life.
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AutoSense 7.0 is supposed to be more accurate in choosing which program to run, and also better at triggering Spheric Speech in Annoying Racket than the previous version. I’ve been running the new version since Thursday morning, but I’m not the best test case: I spend very little time in noisy environments (nothing to do with hearing loss - I just don’t like them), and most of my life I’m in quiet rooms or in my car. Still, I seem to be noticing a little improvement: At the very least, the new AutoSense seems a little better at recognizing that what I’m playing in my car is in fact music. Considering that my phone’s music library includes lots of classic jazz, lots of Indian classical (sitar, santoor, etc.), and bits of all kinds of other stuff, it’s something of a challenge; but this morning it successfully identified both Philip Glass (Glassworks Disc 2) and Thelonious Monk (Live at the Five Spot) as “music”, which is not doing too bad!
As I write, it’s got me in my usual Software Nerd in Front of Computer in Quiet Room program…
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Excellent summary.
In my own case, I chose Phonak Sphere 90s (upgraded to Ultra last Thursday) mostly because of their Bluetooth Classic capability. My phone may or may not handle (it’s a Poco X7 Pro, not available in the US as far as I know, and it looks like it has LE Audio but I don’t have anything to test it with) - but I’m on Zoom/Teams work meetings a lot of the time (even though I hate meetings ), and “normal” computers nowadays don’t support LE Audio unless I buy a separate gadget for each computer I work on. So the Phonaks’ connectivity is a huge plus for me.
Sadly, where I live the Sonova hearing aids are priced much higher than the other top brands: I had to pay the equivalent of $580 for the Sphere 90s, while Oticon Intents or other options would have cost only around $215 for a pair. Am I entitled to feel sorry for myself? 
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how come it’s only $580 for a sphere 90 ? the same thing sells $6000 in my country lol
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The advantages of living in a country with an actual, functioning healthcare system.
Apparently our Ministry of Health has agreements with the various hearing-aid manufacturers - and for whatever reason, the price they get from Phonak/Unitron (= Sonova) is higher than the price they get from Signia, Oticon, and so on. A high percentage of the cost of the hearing aids comes from the Ministry’s budget. Then, for those (including most of us) who pay a little extra for “top-up” insurance coverage, our HMO covers an additional tranche of the cost; how much depends on which HMO we choose to belong to.
The price we pay includes, normally, something like a minimum of 4 audiologist appointments to choose, fit, and adjust the hearing aids; I’m not sure (yet) what the formula is - if there is one - for additional visits that may be necessary. We get something like a 3-year guarantee on the hearing aids, including receivers. And we’re entitled to a new pair every 3.5 years - with a new deductible, of course.
All this requires a certain amount of up-front jumping through hoops - getting an to prescribe a hearing test, then to authorize hearing aids, then an additional hearing test at an actual HMO clinic (or a hospital clinic) that (hopefully) confirms the diagnosis and authorizes you to go ahead and get hearing aids.
The hearing aids can be provided by any of a number of providers who have “arrangements” with the HMOs to provide this service. Many providers deal with only one or two manufacturers, but some deal with a wider selection. And there is a 30-day tryout period mandated as part of the arrangement.
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@Volusiano, I recommend reading that articles before choosing between P and UP receivers:
Additional thoughts: These articles emphasize the important role of a sufficiently high MPO, especially when hearing in noise. Note that theemphasize the important role of a sufficiently high MPO, especially when hearing in noise. Note that the first article presents a situation with an SNR of +15 dB speech in noise, so quite favorable, but with too weak receiver intelligibity can be poor.
This may counterintuitively suggest that UPs could be better if they fot physically in your ear canal.
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I normally wear 85dB receiver size in my Oticon OPN and Oticon Real. I expect them to fit me in 85dB receivers or the equivalent size for the Active Vent receivers. I’m not sure what P and UP receivers are. Are they Power and Ultra Power receivers? Does the Phonak Sphere even work with them? I’m not sure if I need P or UP receivers. I’ve tried 105 receivers in the past on the Oticon aids, but they were not helpful.
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I’m not sure what P and UP receivers are. Are they Power and Ultra Power receivers?
Exactly, yes.
Does the Phonak Sphere even work with them?
These are Phonak SDS 6.0 (Sound Delivery System), dedicated for Infinio lineup, so again, yes.
I’ve tried 105 dB receivers in the past on the Oticon aids, but they were not helpful.
What did make them not helpful? Narrower frequency response?
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As you can see on my , from about 3KHz and up, I have profound hearing loss. I was hoping that the 105 receivers would be able to amplify that range of 3KHz and up to audible tones, but all I could hear were the low frequency mechanical vibrations of the high volume amplifications of those high tones, but I can’t really hear the actual tonal sounds themselves. Also, I’m afraid that there might be feedback due to such high volume amplification at that level, but if the feedback is in that range, I can’t hear it anyway to even know that there’s feedback that might bother other people that I don’t even know about.
I actually paid out of my own pocket money to have the 105 dB receivers in custom molds made for me, to only learn that my 3KHz and up hearing is pretty much too far gone to try to amplify and be able to hear anything in that range. To add to the insult, one of the 105dB receivers fail shortly afterward, and I attribute it to being driven too hard at the high frequencies, although they’re rated for it. And being in the custom mold that was done in a way that it’s not removable, it would mean that I’d now have to pay for a new mold replacement along with the receiver replacement, only to not know how long the new one (or the other one that hasn’t failed yet) would last. So in terms of reliability, it doesn’t seem very good, probably because they’re driven very hard all the times.
So I resort to using the called Speech Rescue from the Oticon aids to allow me to hear the higher frequency range with just using the 85 dB receivers, and that works out really well for amplifying my hearing loss at the low to mid range, with the high ends transposed and composed down into the mid range for me. I’m really hoping that the Phonak SoundRecover 2 frequency lowering will work out for me, because that’s a different lowering technology from the Oticon one, so I’m not sure if I’d be able to get used to it over time. But its lowest lowering point is lower than the Oticon one, so I’m hopeful that it will make the high frequency sounds even more audible to me.
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I was hoping that the 105 dB receivers would be able to amplify that range of 3KHz and up to audible tones,
With Phonak you’d be able I’m sure, as in the receiver has handle it, but whether you can actually hear those or not.. well that’s another question, your a perfect candidate for SoundRecover anyway.
Also, I’m afraid that there might be feedback due to such high volume amplification at that level
Not a problem if the mould is made correctly with a nice tight fit, a small vent as well 1.2mm or less if you can.
And being in the custom mold that was done in a way that it’s not removable, it would mean that I’d now have to pay for a new mold replacement along with the receiver replacement
Yes unfortunately you can’t get around this, as cShell are made this way as well, obviously you could try other types of moulds tho?
I’m sure the SoundRecover will work for you, but just be aware that too much actually distort and even audible artifacts to some.
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from about 3KHz and up, I have profound hearing loss. I was hoping that the 105 dB receivers would be able to amplify that range of 3KHz and up to audible tones, but all I could hear were the low frequency mechanical vibrations of the high volume amplifications of those high tones
That’s a fitting problem, your loss isn’t too bad or too steep. Was it ’d with the power custom receivers? It sounds a lot like you’re getting the downward spread of masking, but with your loss it should be manageable. Tbh I don’t like how much gain averaging that Genie does, it over produces low frequency gain and tends to muddle over the sharpness people want,
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I tried this 105dB experiment way back when I had the OPN. That did not do for me (I was too inexperienced at the time to even know what REM was). She originally fitted me with the 85dB receivers. I was happy with them, but she didn’t turn on Speech Rescue for me. Then I told her that I wanted to try the 105dB receivers to see if it’d be any better and she said OK and took the custom mold and charged me out of pocket for a pair of 105dB (my aids was covered by my insurance at 80%).
So no, REM was not done on the 105dB. But after I got the OPN, I decided to go the route and started learning all I could about the OPN as well as Genie 2. When I went into the In-Situ and tried to recreate the threshold tone test, at thoses high frequencies (3KHz and above), I pushed the amplifcation on those tones to the max possible volume and could not hear any tone. All I heard was the buzzing vibration sound from the receiver. I tried plugging up the vent on the custom mould but it didn’t make any difference as far as being able to hear the actual tones. So if I couldn’t hear those tones at max amplification for the 105dB receivers, I’m not sure if REM could have improved the outcome any differently. By the way, one of the mould didn’t fit well so I made her redo a new mould for me. This was before I started the DIY thing.
Fast forward to last year, when I was fitted for the Real with a new audi, she recommended that I use the 85 receivers instead of the 105 dB receivers for a different reason. She said that since I still have decent enough hearing in the lows, she wants to use the 85dB so that I can use a dome with vent to ensure that I can hear the lows better, as if the custom mold can’t have vents in them or something. But I didn’t argue that logic with her (although it seems fishy) because I’ve not had any better experience with the 105dB receivers with my OPN anyway, so I’d rather stick with the 85dB size for the Real afterall.
She did do REM for me on the Oticon domes, but the right dome was leaking feedback a bit. So she switched me over to the Signia Connexx 3.0 vented dome and lo and behold, no more leak, and even better, she tried REM again and told me that there was no adjustment needed in REM with these domes at all. So I was happy about the no REM needed as a DIY, because that mean I can tweak things and not worrying about losing the original REM setting.
This year, I already paid the $3700 for the Phonak I90 Sphere just last week (same cost as last year for the Real 1), and hopefully in a week or 2 the will come in and they’ll call me in for fitting. My question for you here, @Um_bongo , is whether you think my hearing loss is suitable for the Active Vent receivers or not. I see mentions that the Active Vent is more for mild to moderate hearing loss, while mine is a moderate to severe hearing loss at best, so I don’t know if the Active Vent is an option for me or not. But it’d be really cool if I can pay them a little extra to get the Active Vent fitted on me. I don’t know how much extra they’ll charge me, but it looks like it runs around $110 for each online.
By the way, the new hearing test recently showed that my hearing loss hasn’t changed much at all since last year, and it actually seems stable for the last 10 years so far.
from about 3KHz and up, I have profound hearing loss. I was hoping that the 105 dB receivers would be able to amplify that range of 3KHz and up to audible tones, but all I could hear were the low frequency mechanical vibrations of the high volume amplifications of those high tones
That’s a fitting problem, your loss isn’t too bad or too steep. Was it REM’d with the power custom receivers? It sounds a lot like you’re getting the downward spread of masking, but with your loss it should be manageable. Tbh I don’t like how much gain averaging that Genie does, it over produces low frequency gain and tends to muddle over the sharpness people want,
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Your hearing loss is similar to mine about 10 years ago but mine continued to deteriorate.
There was a time period that normal hearing aids were not doing the trick. I had to try different power aids and receivers to finally prove my upper frequencies were going away.
With UP aids all I heard was buzzing and pain during the . That’s when I got serious about . I don’t know if you have reached this situation but I just wanted to tell you about mine. Your course of actions have not been that much different than mine in the course of trying to hear better.
Sorry for the ramble. Phonak will do well for you and self programming.
Good luck
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is whether you think my hearing loss is suitable for the Active Vent receivers or not. I see mentions that the Active Vent is more for mild to moderate hearing loss,
You’d be a reasonable candidate for them, gain-wise.
Would you be happy with the switching noise and the potential $220 every 6-months if they die?
It’s an equivalent amount of faff to fitting your car with winter/summer tyres vs. all-seasons. Not really difficult to do, will give you performance specific improvements, but likely to regularly be more time consuming and cause baked-in changes/costs.
Personally: I don’t recommend them to clients, as I think engineering that causes ‘baked-in’ obsolescence or extra client difficulty (Phonak cerusheild) isn’t in the client’s interest. Like any cost-benefit decision if it doesn’t pass the 1month/1year acid test, then I’m inclined to walk away.
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Wow, holy cow! I had no idea that it’s that unreliable in terms of failure rate. Definitely every 6 month replacement is not a viable option. I don’t know if receivers are included in the warranty of the or not, or whether it’s considered a wear and tear item that needs to be replaced at the user’s own cost out of pocket.
But even if it’s part of the warranty, this is very stingy with their included after sale service. They only include a few appointments for adjustments in the first year, and that’s it. Even for warranty replacements, after the first year, it would cost me an appointment fee to bring in to drop off the item, and another appointment fee to come back and pick up the warranty repair item. I can’t blame them because they probably get a very paltry amount from the outfit that sells the HAs to the insurance company (to me) as a third party service provider, so they can’t afford to provide sufficient after sales service to those clients from those outfits anyway. If the client is a direct customer and they get to make more profit from a direct sales, then the after-sales service might be more generous.
Your input about the active vent is so valuable here, Stephen, as an HCP who has actual experience in it. I’ll see what my HCP have to say about it just out of curiosity, but I’ll probably forgo that option and just stick with the regular type receiver then. When they fitted my Oticon Real, they only had to spend 1 fitting session with me and after that they didn’t have to spend anymore time with me because I’m a guy.
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This is also why I chose the Phonak Marvel Hearing Aid five years ago. Phonak remains the only manufacturer currently offering stereo audio output via Bluetooth Classic.
As an aside, I’m somewhat surprised Phonak’s latest firmware update still doesn’t include Bluetooth LE audio/—not even an estimated release date! If they ever plan to implement it. The product has been on the market for a year now. Another year might see them launching a new model, and I suspect they won’t consider adding this feature to the Phonak Sphere (purely my personal opinion).
Setting aside any malicious motives (like impacting peripheral product sales), if the Phonak Sphere truly has a Bluetooth LE audio module at the hardware level, they likely face some significant technical hurdles:
decoding relies on software computation, which could significantly impact performance on the current Infinio platform.
Antenna design incompatibility: Phonak remains the only hearing aid brand offering Bluetooth Classic Stereo streaming. Other brands at the time could only achieve mono playback with Bluetooth Classic audio streaming. Phonak previously mentioned investing substantial effort into designing the Marvel antenna to enable host/slave connectivity. However, this design approach might hinder their implementation of Bluetooth LE audio in the Sphere, even with a built-in LE audio module. Of course, this is purely personal speculation and open to correction by other professional engineers.
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As long as I’ve got a thread going with Phonak support, a little while ago I asked about the upgrade. If I learn anything, I’ll post an update.
I can’t really comment on your hardware speculation - I’m handy with a soldering iron, but I’m not an electronics (or antenna) engineer. Would LE Audio require a different antenna than the LE connection the Infinios are already using to communicate with the MyPhonak app?
I’m not clear whether requires more processing than the codec(s) that the Infinios are already using - although I suppose getting equally good (or even better) sound with a lower bitrate could logically require some additional processor guts. OTOH the Infinios are based on a new main chip design, so I would have thought they should be ready for this - and compared to everything else the chip does, I wouldn’t think that supporting LC3 should be all that burdensome.
Obviously, Phonak gets the last word on this question!
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Hi,only just seen this thread- welcome back, you’ve been missed! Sorry to learn the reasons and hope you are well.
Hope your journey with Sphere is good and you are adapting to Target as well as you did with Genie.
My experience with the old tv connector and Paradise was poor and the latest version is far superior, from what I’ve read on here it performs well with the newer platforms.
Well worth the investment.
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You’d be a reasonable candidate for them, gain-wise.
Open state in ActiveVent is like 3 mm diameter of vent. It can be used, when it is 75-85 in 2 kHz and even lower in HFS with reaching targets?
Quite recently, I was a little excited about the prospect of trying ActiveVent, but after delving into the subject, I gave up.
Antenna design incompatibility: Phonak remains the only hearing aid brand offering Bluetooth Classic Stereo streaming. Other brands at the time could only achieve mono playback with Bluetooth Classic audio streaming. Phonak previously mentioned investing substantial effort into designing the Marvel antenna to enable host/slave connectivity. However, this design approach might hinder their implementation of Bluetooth LE audio in the Sphere, even with a built-in BT LE audio module. Of course, this is purely personal speculation and open to correction by other professional engineers.
I think there is probably a solution, see here:
I think this is interesting:
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