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Phonak audeo i90 spheres - awful piano and self-programming

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Hello,

I’m in the middle of a trial of Phonak audeo i90 sheres (my furst ) and have generally found them easy to wear and of definite benefit (moderate to severe loss, particularly higher frequencies).

Except for playing the piano (and other instruments to varying degrees). Whilst the piano is brighter and clearer, it also sounds as if there are metal plates bouncing off the strings, of a metal tray of ball bearings sitting on top. It’s truly awful. I’m no stranger to sound engineering/mixing/recording, and, being the only person who knows what I’m hearing, I suspect that I could make a better job of fixing the problem than my audiologist… I gather I’d need the Phonak Target software and a piece of hardware (Noah something or other) . I see references to diy adjustment using these - but - is it really possibe to get hold of them and if so, how?

Many thanks, Dave

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Welcome to the forum @ great your giving a go, be sure to read the user guides as it’s very helpful for setting up the first time, and it’s the Noahlink wireless programming device you’ll need.

Go to this thread and read some of the first and latest posts and then make a similar request for the Phonak Target software. Someone should PM you with a link.

You can purchase the Noah Wireless 2 at Amazon23 or do a search on ebay.

Dave — I never had this particular problem when I’m playing piano with my i90s, but I really relate to the broader experience you’re describing — things like switching programs in the app and suddenly getting very different results on piano, or at concerts for that matter.

I’m also coming at this as a long-time hearing-aid user who only recently started learning from scratch, and I’ll just say: with a background in mixing/recording, you’re almost certainly going to be able to dial this in better than “quick clinic tweaks,” because you can make small changes and immediately A/B them on the actual instrument in your own room. I know I’ll never go back.

In my case, piano has been less offensive than I expected — and I suspect that’s because my aids often flip into a Music program (or at least a less-processed state) where a lot of the speech-focused is reduced. When the speech/noise features are active, that’s when I notice the synthetic edges and odd resonances.

Since Tenkan already helped with the logistics, I’ll just add encouragement: you really should try DIY. And selfishly, as someone who’s learned a ton doing this, I’d love to hear what an actual mixer discovers and what “tricks” you end up using to make piano sound like piano again.

If you do it, please report back — your ears and your skillset are exactly the combo that can crack this. (Drafted with help and edited by me for accuracy and details of my own experience and views.)

Hi and welcome Dave. I would highly recommend getting the software and hardware you need to self adjust. As a user and musician I found the ability to adjust while playing & hearing the instruments invaluable. I’m also lucky that I have an audiologist who is really dialed in to my situation and helps with her background knowledge of the software.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Hi Dave, welcome. I DIYd my Phonak P90s 3 years ago and it’s been very successful. I have to say that there’s a lot in the Target software that is quite jargony (if that’s a word). A knowledge of conventional sound engineering will help but there’s still a lot that needs learning. It’s not just like using a sound equaliser and raising or lowering certain frequencies. I don’t know if you’re in the UK but there’s a Noahlink Wireless on eBay for £12o here. Noahlink Wireless 2 Hearing Aid Bluetooth Digital Programmer 5.3 | eBay UK

BTW, I’m just starting to learn the piano and have bought a very good mid-range Roland. Generally it’s fairly clear but the strange thing is some of the notes at the lower and higher extremes sound like their almost a semitone out. I just don’t understand it, they aren’t, I’ve measured them with a tuner. Odd. Good luck with it all.

Just wanted to say thanks for everyone’s help, encouragement and pointers to useful resources. I should have the Noah device arriving tomorrow and hope to get some proper time and space to experiment next week. I’ll report back (or perhaps come back with questions first).

Dave, post your for more informed feedback

Good luck with the , lots of learning and tweeking but worth it.

I’ve looked at the Phonak Target program with it connected to my hearing aids a couple of times now, and my initial impression is that it is not at all intuitive.

What I want to do is turn off all effects on the automatic music program and reduce the input gain across the whole frequency spectrum. Any pointers would be much appreciated.

Dave

Well I have to disagree, you can go to your music program and make all the adjustments you can, I’m sure you’ll be able to get them sounding pretty good over Autosence trying to work it out( and in most cases getting it wrong)

I can’t see where to make the adjustments that I want to make. e.g. I can’t see a range of frequency bands with a means of adjusting input gain per band; either by a eg a slider or typing numbers in… or anything. I’m sure that this must exist but I can’t see it.

Wow ok so where did you get your copy of target? once target is open in fine tuning it’s impossible to miss?But regardless you need to read the user guides before starting a project, as this is very helpful for setting up the first time.

In reply to @Dave99

I’m sure everything is in your target program. Be careful you don’t overwrite your current fitting by accident.

I was fortunate when I first got my Oticon OPN’s and a copy of Genie. A H.I.S from Norway offered to connect remotely to my laptop using Team Viewer. He walked me through the basics and got me familar enough with Genie to run In-Situ and experiment with experiment with different settings and tweaks to the fitting.

First thing you want to do is make a backup of your current fitting so you can alway get back to how your were programed by your .

I would offer to help, but I am not familar with the Target program.

@Mikejl said:

Be careful you don’t overwrite your current fitting by accident.

This is not a problem. Target keeps a list of all your past configurations, and it is very easy to revert to an earlier session. Just make sure you also download your ’s initial settings (Target will ask you for it when you first connect).

Also, you do not need Noahlink II, the original hardware (plain Noahlink) still works fine and is cheaper.

When listening to music (piano or other) I still prefer plain old 35$ wired headphones rather than HAs, along with a cheapo $20 amplifier with treble and bass.

I’ve now spent quite a bit of time with Target trying to fix the problems I’m experiencing when playing the piano (and acoustic guitar on the 3 higher strings) and it seems that nothing can be done. Even after turning off all possible processing it seems that the hearing aid software is still applying processing which mangles the sound beyond what is bearable. I’ve also watched my audiologist trying all the same things that I’d already tried myself. It should be straightforward to provide a toggle to switch all the clever stuff off and just leave dumb amplification in place, but they don’t. The trial still has a month to go so I haven’t returned them for a refund yet.

Meanwhile I’ve started a trial of Oticon Intent 1s from a different high street chain (" … they’re £6700 but we’ve got a discount on this month so you can have them for £4700… “ ) On the music program guitar now has no issues and piano is good enough that my mind is more on the piano than the awful noise. It’s not perfect and I wonder if the software that the supplier uses would give me the extra I need to improve things further. Is it possible to get hold of it? I noticed that the audiologist was using the same Noah Wireless unit that I already have.

It’s early days yet but my feeling is that, live music aside, I prefer the Phonaks. They seemed to adapt nicely to whatever I needed whereas the Oticons need to be turned up several notches for TV and then down otherwise. They seem generally flakier, too. When streaming (Android) the sound sometimes floats from left to right. Not a lot but it’s annoying when it happens. The App is annoying, making noises when the faders go up and down, and it’s even less useful than the Phonak app which itself didn’t provide many options for doing anything. As I say, it’s early days and I haven’t had many opportunities for seeing how they perform in different situations.

But… although I feel I generally prefer the Phonaks, the Oticons will probably win because they are “ok” and, crucially, they let me play the piano and other instruments without hating the experience. It doesn’t matter how good any hearing aid is if it takes all the pleasure out of music.

@Dave99 said:

Even after turning off all possible processing it seems that the hearing aid software is still applying processing which mangles the sound beyond what is bearable.

How so? Of course being digital there’s processing but nothing is being added, you didn’t mention what formula’s you tried, as you haven’t posted your audogram it’s also hard to say what acoustics/receiver your using, obviously open dome can present some challenges, and if the receiver is a little underpowered, so still thing’s to consider for Phonak, I don’t like them or Oticon, I settled for Signia and ReSound for my needs but not really for live music, although they sound great with my guitar.

I’m very new to all this so don’t understand all the terminology. When you say I didn’t mention what formulas I used, what does that mean? How do I post my ? I have a pdf copy of it. What I’ve tried with the Phonak is turning off all processing that can be turned off - things like noise reduction etc. etc. I’d like to turn off compression but that can’t be done directly; only by moving gain curves closer together. I’ve increased in case there was any clipping/limiting going on. Of course there’s processing - AD and DA - but that, and a bit of amplification with relevant frequencies boosted as needed, is all I want for music. All the other “clever processing” is not wanted. I can’t see what else I can try although suggestions are welcome … as I pursue the Oticons in parallel.

Self-programming, , can be tricky but rewarding especially for a musician who should have a bit of a head start. Having the assistance of a trained audiologist is terrific. But members of this board can also be a great help. But posting your is pretty much a necessity in order to get informed assistance. It is easier to post your audiogram than to program your hearing aids. If you can’t figure out how to do that you probably won’t be able to properly program your aids.

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