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Auracast church broadcast setup

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Edited

Couple comments…

  1. I would suggest you look into using a Matrix output on your sound bound to feed . That Matrix channel can be fed from the main audio output, then run through 3:1 compression with a vey fast attack & very slow release time. That will give listeners the reduced dynamic range they need and yet a natural sound.

  2. I bought a BA210 for my church, but found it wants to revert to a delayed (250mSec) output rather than the normal 30mSec delay of Auracast. The delay problem is quickly corrected with a power Off/On cycle, but it is a nuisance to power cycle the thing each week. UPDATE EDIT: This is no longer an issue. I have confirmed BA210s units sold on Amazon currently do not exbibit this issue and work fine.

Thanks for the info that different HA manufacturers expect differing audio levels. That’s good to know.

We have a patch to resolve that latency issue and save the effort of the weekly reset. Contact me if you are interested in trying it out.

Can you share the exact attack and release time for your compression setting? We are looking into building a block into the next generation of BA210.

Thank you, AndrewK. Your sharing the successes in setting up your system has brought hope here in the Pacific northwest. Our regional catholic church local governing system has changed completely. No more individual “pastors” for each one priest per region is leads and directs all 5 parishes and the other 4 serve as a team. A year ago, our lead pastor was totally against installing anything “bluetooth” he was only willing to pay to have a wire run under the church to install the old method. I have been keeping him informed with what I have been learning from you very knowledgeable forum members. Your own inexpensive Auracast installation results has piqued his interest so much that he is discussing doing it here. Our region has 5 church buildings that need the changes and the costs need to be low budget and effective for everyone. I went to the Avantree web site and the equipment they show for congregation church setup appears to “start” at $1300.00. It did mention, that those of us who have bluetooth hearing aids connected to our smart phones and/or newer Auracast ready hearing aids might not need an Avantree assistive listening device. It also mentioned that some Apple AirPod users might be able to connect. I’m not that knowledgeable on this stuff but have no issues in learning to use. Would you be willing to share, long distance, how you achieved successful setup, cost and results with our Pastor, privately, please? Many thanks.

I would the person in charge of making this change call the folks at Avantree and they should be able to answer most if not all your questions.

What I would want to know if the Avantree product can broadcast simultaneously at a high fidelity rate that is used by most ear buds and the lower fidelity rate that may only used with some of the hearing aids.

My Philips 9050 hearing aids can accept either a higher fidelity rate or a lower fidelity rate. However, I believe my EarFun ear buds will only accept a higher fidelity rate.

Ear buds are usually much cheaper then hearing aids.

In checking with Avantree a couple of days ago to see if their public use system (not professional), the Audikast 4, would transmit both classic bluetooth and st the same time, Avantree tech support told me that their Auracast/bluetooth transmitters do not support both Auracast and classic bluetooth at the same time. One possible solution (and this is one I may recommend to my friends who have two different brands of hearing aids, one of which is Auracast compatible and one which uses classic bluetooth) might be to get two transmitters (they are reasonably priced), connect both to the same audio source - using a splitter if there aren’t two separate connections; and set one up to broadcast Auracast while the other broadcasts classic bluetooth.

Don’t you need to pair with classic Bluetooth? If so, is it really a broadcast? I thought was invented to stop the need to pair.

Eventually I expect (hope) it will. At this point, however, there are a large number of hearing aids and headphones that receive classic Bluetooth. To try to reach the most people were can today, I was searching for a dual mode system.

Thank you I just contacted my pastor to look into for our church. Is there any way to save this topic so I can forward it to my church? Thanks

Edited

It would be nice if old Bluetooth worked like that but I don’t think it does. Old Bluetooth needs to pair and unpair with a device; like your phone or your speaker. I’m sure you’ve had issues trying to unpair something to pair something else.

is different. It’s one to many – it doesn’t actually link with the transmitter, it only listens to the broadcast (like choosing a radio station). The transmitter does not know how many people are connected or when they drop out.

Auracast software is built “on top of” Bluetooth so there is some confusion there. It also requires a fairly current version of Bluetooth (5.3+) and then software to manage the Auracast signal format. New cell phones and hearing aids will support Bluetooth 5.3+Auracast if they don’t already.

So having headphones or hearing aids that “have Bluetooth” doesn’t really say much. Unless they support Bluetooth 5.3+ and Auracast specifically they will probably have to link and unlink with a traditional old Bluetooth transmitter (like your phone) and that will be one-to-one.

From the the Avantree website:

2. Can I share TV audio with two (or more) people at the same time?
Yes, in Auracast mode you can broadcast to multiple compatible receivers at once. In classic Bluetooth mode, the transmitter can connect to only one device at a time.

Basically Auracast is new so we are caught between an expensive defunct standard (Teleloop) and an inexpensive new standard that many vendors want everyone else to support first (though everyone seems to agree it’s the way to go.) My Oticon Intent Ones work just fine with Auracast already and so do the Auracast headphones I mentioned earlier in this thread. It will just take time for vendors to catch up to what the users already want

Compatible with (partial list)6

Nice simple transmitter4

We have implemented at the Museum in Colorado Springs where I volunteer. To be better compliant, we also have several sets of Auracast compatible headsets for guests who need hearing help, but do not yet have Auracast compatible hearing aids. We are, particularly, planning on using these for any youngsters in school field trips who need hearing help, but don’t have Auracast hearing aids.

While our primary objective is to help our guests, we also want to show other venues in town and statewide how easy and inexpensive Auracast is to “shame” them to do otherwise. Right now there is a “Catch 22” situation where some hearing aid manufacturers are using the excuse that Auracast is not widely used before they activate it and many venues say they will implement Auracast when more people can use it. We’ve also found, when we tell guests about our use of Auracast at the museum, that even though their hearing aids have Auracast activated, their audiologists have not shown them how to use it. (I even had to show my audiologist how to use Auracast when I was fitted with new hearing aids two weeks ago.)

One of my fellow volunteers at the museum and his wife wear hearing aids. His are classic bluetooth compatible, hers recently had Auracast activated via a firmware update. They bought a new TV set and were searching for a way to allow both to stream audio to their hearing aids. My suggestion was to use whatever streaming capability the audio settings in their TV supports and to get an Auracast/bluetooth transmitter to use the appropriate transmission for the other pair of hearing aids.

We recently have installed in our church, and it is not as helpful as we hoped. With an Avantree receiver & over-the-ear headphone, it works well. But with my Philips 9050 aids, there is a disturbing amount of delay. Another hearing aid user with older aids that support also reports an excessive delay using an Avantree neck loop receiver. Are there some some brands of hearing aids that don’t have a big delay? Is there anything in the Auracast standard that says how much delay is allowed?

The sound system in this church is pretty good, and I hear well enough without using Auracast, but the delay is enough that I would not use Auracast in any situation where I would be hearing the sound both over the air and via Auracast. By the way, with the 9050s and the Philips TV transmitter, I do not experience noticeable delay between the sound from the TV and the sounds via the transmitter. So the 9050s can stream with minimal delay, just not with Auracast.

@stevepriceloco said:

But with my Philips 9050 aids, there is a disturbing amount of delay

Definitely should not be getting this, something is not set up right.

@stevepriceloco said:

Are there some some brands of hearing aids that don’t have a big delay?

with has no noticeable delay, this is one of its main benefits.

@stevepriceloco said:

Is there anything in the Auracast standard that says how much delay is allowed?

I’m sure there’s a standard.

Cut and paste from Google.

:gear: Core Technical SpecificationsThe Codec: Replaces legacy SBC with the highly efficient (Low Complexity Communications Codec), providing higher fidelity at lower bitrates for better battery life.Quality Profiles: Uses the Public Broadcast Profile (PBP). Standard Quality (SQ) transmits at 16 kHz or 24 kHz with 10 ms frames. High Quality (HQ) steps up to 48 kHz for premium devices.Latency & Isochronous Streams: Operates via Connected Isochronous Streams (CIS) and Broadcast Isochronous Streams (BIS) to perfectly sync audio packets across multiple devices with extremely low latency.Discoverability: Broadcasts look similar to open Wi-Fi networks. Auracast transmitters advertise data at 30 ms intervals, allowing receiving devices to connect in seconds.

More tech specs here.

Redirect Notice1

I have the Philips 9050 and use at home. I’ve used it once in a theatre. I’ve never noticed a delay. I don’t have a technical background but I don’t see how any receiving device could add enough delay in its processing of the Auracast signal to make a difference.

Is it possible that it’s actually the ambient sound that is delayed because of your distance from the speakers?

In reply to @stevepriceloco

I use the FlooGoo, Avantree and Homespot transmitters with my Philip 9050 hearing aids and I don’t experience any delay. We use the Homespot transmitter when square dancing.

You might contact Avantree support to see if they have any suggestions.

I think there may be one important point here: / is low latency, but it is not zero latency.

In many cases the delay is around 50–70ms. That normally feels fine if you are only listening to the streamed audio. But in a church, if your hearing aid microphones are still picking up the sound from the room or speakers, while the same audio is also coming through Auracast, even around 60ms can feel like an echo or “double sound.”

That’s why we usually suggest hearing aid users try turning down or muting the hearing aid microphones when listening through Auracast in a live venue. Sitting a bit farther away from the church speakers may also help, especially if the room sound is very loud.

This may also be why the Philips TV transmitter feels fine at home. With TV, you usually are not hearing the same audio loudly through room speakers at the same time, so the echo effect is much less obvious.

We wrote a short note about this here:
https://support.venucast.com/hc/en-us/articles/55897873265177-Hearing-Echo-or-Delay2

And a more general latency explanation here:
https://venucast.com/blogs/news/audio-latency-explained-what-is-acceptable-audio-delay-for-bluetooth-auracast-and-live-venues3

I bought a Homespot unit for my church and it is working well it transmits more than 100 ft and I cannot detect any delay. The unit only cost $50.00. I can now hear and understand what is being said. Now we just need to get the word out that it is available to everone.

Edited

I am using a Homespot BA201 at my home on my TV through an optical connection. I detect no delay between the video and the audio. However, if I also turn up the speaker volume I can hear a small echo between the speaker audio and the audio (using a set of Homespot headphones). @PhoebeY is correct and the links she provided are both accurate and useful.

The Homespot BA210 transmitter (about $60) will work fine in a small church as it has a range of about 100 feet. More expensive equipment, like the Avantree Oasis Aura (about $130) works better for a larger space as it has a range of about 300 feet. Note that both ranges provide coverage in a circular area with a radius of the stated range. YMMV depending on what is between the transmitter and receiver(s). There is equipment that is even more expensive that will provide even longer ranges.

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