I think at this point I have tried these hearing aids in just about every possible combination of sound environments and they are extremely versatile. Of the 5 programs that I currently have setup (Calm, Speech in Noise, Music, StereoZoom, AutoZoom), I am finding that I never use the Calm or the Speech in Noise settings. The automatic mode handles most situations quite well and the combination of StereoZoom and ZoomControl is all you really need for noisy situations. I may just have the audiologist replace Calm with DuoPhone and replace the Speech in Noise with something else. Adding mute might be a good choice when you want quiet without taking out the hearing aids (airplane, reading in a noisy environment, etc).
I never used Manual Speech-in-noise, because Speech-in-noise in Soundflow is more aggressive than can be set in Manual, so I had it taken out. I decreased the mids slightly in Soundflow which increased Speech comprehension significantly for me, but this did cause a slight loss of low frequency sounds. I had Calm Situations in Manual programed with slightly higher mids for when I want fuller sounds (birds chirping, bells wringing, toilets flushing, etc) and don’t need maximum speech comprehension. The mute selection does not take up one of the five program slots, but adds an additional sixth position. The disadvantage with having a mute selection is you have to cycle between more programs to get to the one you want.
Stratuscom and JordanK,
I am very much enjoying your posts in anticipation of getting my Ambra aids Tuesday the 28th (5days, 22hours).
I had hardware issues with the Audeo Smart ixs, but none with the sound of them. If my audi can do as well for me with the S platform as he did with the Core, it will be fine.
If I may, the problem isn’t particularly with the I-Com, it’s an issue with the degree of venting afforded by the fitting (especially with a milder loss like yours). Lots of the bass is just ‘lost’ by the lack of seal on the receiver.
Fixing it is fairly straightforward: you either have the low pitch gain turned up on the I-Com program OR you increase the seal around your receiver with a more occluding tip: which might make your own voice sound loud.
Whichever case it may be difficult to achieve the drive level you want with such a small speaker, as a secondary function of what the aid is really intended to do.
Um bongo,
If I understand what you are saying, someone who would like a fuller sound with more bass should consider a more aggressive coupling (Classic molds vs. a dome) and a higher power receiver than what they would normally require?
iCom Adjustments
Right now, the iCom has a delay as it activates, so I will sometimes miss alert tones on my computer. I’ll hear the iCom activation tone followed by the disconnect tone - but no computer alert in the middle. I’d like to see this delay adjusted, if possible.
To lock in continuous audio streaming with the iCom and stop if from reverting back to the last program five seconds after streaming stops:
<b> Press and hold the iCom button. While holding the iCom button momentarily push the iCom power button.</b>
This only works on iComs with the latest software.
There was one area of disagreement. I still feel the end user needs more information to assist the audiologist in getting a good fitting. Information like what we glean from this forum. She believed the end user just needs to accurately describe what he/she is experiencing and rely on the audiologist’s expertise to resolve all issues, but that is a topic for another thread.
Perhaps another thread (you two may not actually be very much in disagreement); however, a comment: when I was training to be a test pilot, I evaluated an airplane I’d not flown before, and an instructor asked what I thought of one of the flight characteristics. I said I thought the CNBeta needed to be increased (one of the 26 terms in a second order differential equation that describes aircraft handling characteristics). He said, “Don’t do that! Don’t tell the engineers [audiologists] how to fix it. Learn to observe completely and how to accurately describe your observations. Let the experts figure out how best to deal with the issue you have discovered and described.”
I think our education and swapping of anecdotes on this forum are very valuable; however, we should use all this to improve our observations and our reporting of those observations. If we start telling the ’s to increase the mids in such-and-such program or when/how to run a feedback program, I think we’re going to lose some of the value of their expertise (and make them mad). Besides, all our ears and all our hearing are different. What works for one may not be best for anyone else.
Micro, I don’t want to make the audi mad either! but I just came from an exhausting hour+ session. From the Phonak site I printed a brochure page about DuoPhone and I also heard about DuoPhone on this forum. The audi had no idea what I was talking about! He said I already had automatic “easy phone” or he could provide “Phone via plus mic.” Finally after a few calls to a rep he found the term “DuoPhone” in the software and I think he programmed for it, but he expects it to be automatic and I believe I need to press the program button on the aids to invoke DuoPhone.
This is just one example. The audi is completely lost with this new software. Is it true that Phonak will provide training to hearing professionals next month? If I wanted to find an audi who is deeply familiar with the software how would I do that? (California)
My very first post on this forum addressed my most pressing need, to better understand phone calls on the landline at work.
I refuse to give up! Why purchase these aids with little idea of what they can do? My next question for the audi will involve auto ZoomControl. Even if a feature does not work for me I deserve to know that it is available and give it a try if it sounds useful.
I must add that my audi is a very Nice Person. He works from his home and his costs/prices are moderate. He is willing to spend a lot of time with me, but today he was becoming frazzled just trying to turn the aids on via the software, much less find DuoPhone. Can’t he practice with the new software on his own?—that’s what I do at work.
Thanks for listening.
The Spice-aids have great possibilities. But more and more I am not sure, if it was the right decision to let the Oticon Agils go.
My YES aids are rather good, ok. We tried to transfer the fitting to the smarts. The print-out showed, that we did not succeed.
Target did not transfer the fitting.
I am still not sure, if the spice platform is the same machine in YES and Smarts.
My audio then tried to copy the programs manually with the printout.
Today I got the mail, that she ordered a phonak representive for January 13.
Spice-aids seem to be good. But what is it worth, when they are so difficult.
Agils are easier to fit. May be the new software Target is not the workflow of every audio. So I have to wait til 13th January and see what the audio from Phonak will do.
Micro, I don’t want to make the audi mad either! but I just came from an exhausting hour+ session. From the Phonak site I printed a brochure page about DuoPhone and I also heard about DuoPhone on this forum. The audi had no idea what I was talking about! He said I already had automatic “easy phone” or he could provide “Phone via T-coil plus mic.” Finally after a few calls to a rep he found the term “DuoPhone” in the software and I think he programmed for it, but he expects it to be automatic and I believe I need to press the program button on the aids to invoke DuoPhone.
This is just one example. The audi is completely lost with this new software. Is it true that Phonak will provide training to hearing professionals next month? If I wanted to find an audi who is deeply familiar with the software how would I do that? (California)
My very first post on this forum addressed my most pressing need, to better understand phone calls on the landline at work.
I refuse to give up! Why purchase these aids with little idea of what they can do? My next question for the audi will involve auto ZoomControl. Even if a feature does not work for me I deserve to know that it is available and give it a try if it sounds useful.
I must add that my audi is a very Nice Person. He works from his home and his costs/prices are moderate. He is willing to spend a lot of time with me, but today he was becoming frazzled just trying to turn the aids on via the software, much less find DuoPhone. Can’t he practice with the new software on his own?—that’s what I do at work.
Thanks for listening.
I have to agree with you nan2! Some Audi’s may be gods and wizards combined, but many are lost in computer programs, the simple truth is, some have’nt got a scooby as to what they are doing and try to play it by ear (pun intended :D) For instance, today I spent the best part of two hours with an Audi, different set of of hearing aids from this thread granted, 1 x Naida V UP & 1 x Niada V SP, Audi was using iPFG and attempting to adjust the aids together, then install a Mypilot which she recomended me to buy! Suffice to say its still not installed, after struggling for half an hour, I suggested that maybe the reason she could not hook up the two aids together with Hi Pro was they were different aids, she could hook up to 1, but not both simultaneously, but no she carried on regardless, senior Audi’s were called in, software was reinstalled, but in the end she was stumped, for the same reasons (2 different aids) Mypilot would install on one aid but not both! Logic kinda told me before hand…But hey, I’m no Audi!
If I understand what you are saying, someone who would like a fuller sound with more bass should consider a more aggressive coupling (Classic molds vs. a dome) and a higher power receiver than what they would normally require?
That’s an option to consider, though it may give rise to more occlusion than you are happy with. Turning up the low frequency sounds in the I-com program would be my initial preference.
The Spice-aids have great possibilities. But more and more I am not sure, if it was the right decision to let the Oticon Agils go.
My YES aids are rather good, ok. We tried to transfer the fitting to the smarts. The print-out showed, that we did not succeed.
Target did not transfer the fitting.
I am still not sure, if the spice platform is the same machine in YES and Smarts.
My audio then tried to copy the programs manually with the printout.
Today I got the mail, that she ordered a phonak representive for January 13.
Spice-aids seem to be good. But what is it worth, when they are so difficult.
Agils are easier to fit. May be the new software Target is not the workflow of every audio. So I have to wait til 13th January and see what the audio from Phonak will do.
They are to cumbersome to fit… My college who fits tons of phonak said there is a long learning curve. This CANT BE Agil killers!!!
Micro, I don’t want to make the audi mad either! but I just came from an exhausting hour+ session. From the Phonak site I printed a brochure page about DuoPhone and I also heard about DuoPhone on this forum. The audi had no idea what I was talking about! He said I already had automatic “easy phone” or he could provide “Phone via T-coil plus mic.” Finally after a few calls to a rep he found the term “DuoPhone” in the software and I think he programmed for it, but he expects it to be automatic and I believe I need to press the program button on the aids to invoke DuoPhone.
This is just one example. The audi is completely lost with this new software. Is it true that Phonak will provide training to hearing professionals next month? If I wanted to find an audi who is deeply familiar with the software how would I do that? (California)
My very first post on this forum addressed my most pressing need, to better understand phone calls on the landline at work.
I refuse to give up! Why purchase these aids with little idea of what they can do? My next question for the audi will involve auto ZoomControl. Even if a feature does not work for me I deserve to know that it is available and give it a try if it sounds useful.
I must add that my audi is a very Nice Person. He works from his home and his costs/prices are moderate. He is willing to spend a lot of time with me, but today he was becoming frazzled just trying to turn the aids on via the software, much less find DuoPhone. Can’t he practice with the new software on his own?—that’s what I do at work.
Thanks for listening.
Seems to me that your audiologist is not up to speed. What we learn in this forum can help us to determine whether an audiologist has been trained or not and may increase/decrease our confidence in him/her. But there is a point beyond which more “coaching” by the patient on technical details may do more harm than good.
My did not recommend DuoPhone (which, I believe, is under Acoustic Telephone) and said I’d hate it. I insisted that it be one of the options installed because there was room for it, and I knew it would be awhile before I could see her again. I use it all the time, even though it works on only one side right now (and it convinced me to get an iCom to get the same effect through Bluetooth).
My comments were an attempt to distinguish between telling an AuD how to fix a problem (based, perhaps, on someone else’s report here) and defining the “problem.” As well as just exploring options and programs together. I’m suggesting to consider describing what is wrong or what you like, rather than walking in and saying “I want the highs decreased in Music, I want the lows increased in Calm, and I want the mids reduced in Speech in Noise” or something like that.
Most certainly, we should go to the AuD’s office with some knowledge. But there is a chasm of difference between explaining the situations where the aids are less than optimum and telling an AuD exactly what parameters to insert based on someone else’s experience. In fact, just because someone thinks they know what changes were made to their programming that either fixed or ruined their fitting may not mean they know every check-in-the-box the AuD did in the software.
Clearly, at least for some time, we’re going to see a wide range of skills associated with the Target software. Those Audi’s that have zero experience with it will struggle, and their clients will not be as satisfied as they would be with another provider. I think these are great aids, and I’m sorry to see that some are having problems getting them set up properly.
They are to cumbersome to fit… My college who fits tons of phonak said there is a long learning curve. This CANT BE Agil killers!!!
I don’t know about being “Agil killers,” but these aids don’t have to be complicated. My friend went with the Ambras. He is not technically savvy. The audiologist went with the recommended settings in Target, only installed AutoZoom and StereoZoom, and didn’t get a remote. He uses Auto 90% of the time and when he needs help with speech, he tries one of the manual modes. It’s working great for him. He may look at adding other features in a month or two.
I agree with Micro that the aud needs to be the one looking at the big picture and adjustment details.
Interesting that there have been a couple of comments about Spice software being difficult and I am a poster child for that. Technical information I bring to the audiologist I get from the Phonak, just the on-line brochure, not high-level math. That’s how I know about DuoPhone and AutoZoom. Then I fill in with more detail from this forum (thank you, thank you!)
Encouraging update is that the audi wants us to meet with a Phonak rep, yeah! He called me at home and I really liked DuoPhone, except for an intermittent high-pitched ringing. It might be some kind of feedback, but it has vibration in the tone.
I am the first Ambra for this audiologist so repeated visits will be time consuming, but could be a win-win for both of us. I do feel he could have done a bit more homework…
I have high hopes for my audi as he was very excited about the Spice platform and had tried it out. He was very pleased that Phonak had released it to the VA at the same time as the general US release. I’m sure that the training must be difficult for him and his peers to obtain with the huge load on their time at the VA hospital. I’m not aware of how civilian audis are loaded up by the boomer’s aging, so I don’t know what their training schedule may be. Under trained technical people is one of the hazards of being on the “bleeding edge of technology”.
They are to cumbersome to fit… My college who fits tons of phonak said there is a long learning curve. This CANT BE Agil killers!!!
Hi xbuilder
seems logical to me that having followed this thread, that the new Target software combined with the spice, then Target does the work for the Audi and the ’s only become cumbersome once the Audi has tweaked them! To my way of thinking and this would seem to reflect most of the end users trialing these HA’s, they seem excellent at first fitting, tis after the Audi’s get in about the guts of the program that the problems occur, very few of these Audi’s will have had enough training to be totally competent with them?..They should let Target do its stuff, make as little adjustments as possible, add/remove settings where necessary and leave the rest well alone:D
Now shoot me down in flames if you guys and girls like…But if it works on its own, there is no point in trying to fix it?
seems logical to me that having followed this thread, that the new Target software combined with the spice, then Target does the work for the Audi and the HA’s only become cumbersome once the Audi has tweaked them! To my way of thinking and this would seem to reflect most of the end users trialing these HA’s, they seem excellent at first fitting, tis after the Audi’s get in about the guts of the program that the problems occur, very few of these Audi’s will have had enough training to be totally competent with them?..They should let Target do its stuff, make as little adjustments as possible, add/remove settings where necessary and leave the rest well alone:D
Now shoot me down in flames if you guys and girls like…But if it works on its own, there is no point in trying to fix it?
Cheers, Kev:D
C’mon Kev, everybody wants to twiddle
There’s probably a bit of being green about the software and not understanding the role of the initial feedback manager run to set the gain up.
You need the audiologist to be able to be willing to make adjustments, otherwise you’re going to hit a brick wall when you come back in with a slight problem. IMHO with the Spice people are being a bit heavy handed with the first adjust.
The Oticon software made a suggestion. My audio did not follow it completely.
She calls it freedom for the audio.
She will not be satisfied to sell with autimatic fitting.
Even we had the problem to do the fitting manually to the smarts and the problem, that different Phonak people had a different contrary answer to the problem.
I think, when you change something in the fitting, then you know what other HA are doing. Not so with the smarts. We wanted to make something better and were always surprised what the smarts are doing then.
When the smarts are only good for people who are comfortable with the automatic fitting, then all others will have a problem.
There’s probably a bit of being green about the software and not understanding the role of the initial feedback manager run to set the gain up.
You need the audiologist to be able to be willing to make adjustments, otherwise you’re going to hit a brick wall when you come back in with a slight problem. IMHO with the Spice people are being a bit heavy handed with the first adjust.
Aye Um bongo, you are probably right… You usually are!
I ain’t no Audi, but I know a little about software, I’m always trying to learn more though! As with all things, everything has cause and effect, it seems to me more so with this Spice platform and as you aptly put it, if Spice people are “a bit heavy handed” then IMHO this approach has a bit of a domino effect?.. should it not be more softly, softly?
And yes, as with everything new we would all want to twiddle, fiddle and tweak to our hearts content, but unless the Audi is or up to speed with the software then the client might not have a good experience at the hands of the uninitiated? Again, if it ain’t broken…
I personally think that the new Target software is probably a lot easier to use. The main problem is that most audiologist are use to using the old software platform and learn anything new is like…learning anything new. You have to get trained and then spend time practicing your skills. The other difference is that the old software got you to a starting point and then the audiologist was expected to do quite a bit of tweaking and adjustments over 4-6 appointments. The new software seems to get the fitting extremely close to the final fitting and you only have to make tiny changes to get it perfect. Most audiologist can’t seem to resist the temptation to fiddle (in an effort to learn the software in the field) and this is messing up some of the fittings.
I just had my 4th fitting yesterday and I think I’m done with any changes for the time being. These hearing aids are now perfectly setup for me. All changes made in the last 4 fittings were very minor. Added a couple of db in the StereoZoom. Deleted a few programs. Added a few programs. Decreased the gain when using the iCom to stream bluetooth, etc. These were all very small changes and we certainly didn’t mess around with any of the noise reduction or equalization settings. The other thing is…when we originally started the first fitting we started from scratch. We didn’t import any data from another program. He redid everything including the real ear sound characteristics using that little tube in your ear canal and did feedback tests, etc. The other thing that helped is that my audiologist is also and he got himself a set of Audeo Yes Spice hearing aids and spent quite a bit of time learning the software by practicing on himself after hours. That helped quite a bit. We all just need to be patient and let the audiologist settle in with the new software. Once this happens…everything should be good.
My hearing aids are all set for the time being. The only final changes we made to them yesterday was to delete the Speech in Noise program and the Calm program. Those two programs are just not needed with the Smart IXs. My program lineup is now:
Automatic
Acoustic Phone (DuoPhone)
StereoZoom
ZoomControl
Music
Mute
This works perfectly for me and I’m happy. The only thing that I would like to see in the future is an iPhone app to replace the myPilot. Now how cool would that be?
He redid everything including the real ear sound characteristics using that little tube in your ear canal and did feedback tests, etc.
Hi Jordan. Could you clarify what you mean what you said in quote above? “using that little tube in your canals”. Is it really just starting out by entering the Coupling, the earpiece used and the vent size, then with the aids in your ears run the feedback manager?
Thanks for all your post. I have learned alot here. More than my Audie has. Its too bad that there is not a forum at Phonak so that dispensers of Phonak or any other brands of product can talk to one another.
My Audie confirmed what was said in a earlier post here that the Phonak reps, after the holidays, will be doing training. Its been over 4 weeks demoing these smart S aids. All i have is Auto and zoom left and zoom right. Its really frustrating and disappointing. So much so that i have contemplated doing another trial at another Audiologist.
Scottish Highlands
Wales, UK
Toronto, Canada