Tweaking music program step by step

@tenkan said:

What and how can members use this perceived loudness test, looks interesting.

It all started with me feeling at a loss whenever I played my acoustic or classical guitar. They never sounded quite right, and I had lost any real reference for how they should sound in the first place. I needed a truly flat music program.

So I created two audio files, each playing the 24 frequency bands of my hearing aids (Intent now, More back then) at levels perceived by a normal ear as equally loud.

If you want to try them yourself, you’ll need:

1. A good pair of headphones or studio monitors (I use my Beyerdynamic DT 900 Pro X).

2. A decibel meter app on your phone (I use Decibel X on my iPhone).

Here’s how to do it:

• Switch to your music program.

• Calibrate the audio playback by adjusting the 1 kHz tone to 65 dB (for the 65-phon file) or 80 dB (for the 80-phon file). Use the decibel meter app here — it helps identify the tone’s frequency and intensity.

• Listen to the calibrated audio and check whether the frequencies sound equally loud. Take notes of any that seem higher or lower than the rest so you can fine-tune your music program accordingly.

Not perfect, but a very good approximation and you can do it at home.

This is what Gemini says about equal loudness contours:

“Equal-loudness contours, also known as Fletcher-Munson curves, are graphs that show the sound pressure levels of pure tones across a range of frequencies that are perceived as equally loud by the human ear. These curves demonstrate that the ear’s sensitivity varies with frequency, being most sensitive to mid-range frequencies (approximately 2–5 kHz) and less sensitive to very low and very high frequencies, especially at lower volumes. The unit of measurement for loudness level is the phon, which is defined by a sound’s loudness relative to a 1 kHz tone on the contour”.

Key aspects of equal-loudness contours (from Gemini too):

• Varying sensitivity: At lower volumes, the ear’s sensitivity is lower for bass and treble frequencies compared to mid-range frequencies.
• Flatter curves at higher volumes: As the sound pressure level increases, the curves become flatter, meaning the perceived loudness across different frequencies becomes more uniform.
• Phon as a unit: A sound’s loudness level in phons is equal to its sound pressure level in decibels at a 1 kHz reference frequency.
• Historical context: The original curves were charted by Harvey Fletcher and Wilden Munson in 1933. Later research, such as work by Robinson and Dadson, has led to revised standards like the modern ISO 226:2003 standard”.

Here’s the absolutely mind-boggling difference between what Genie 2 prescribes — which works great for speech comprehension in my P1, except for the excessive gain up to 625 Hz in my right ear — and what I actually need to make my guitars shine! I’ve been perfecting this program for a while, and it keeps getting better and better with less and less, if you catch my meaning.

@e1405 said:

If you want to try them yourself, you’ll need:

Awesome, now I can bring the Hendrix experience to my playing he he, but yeah it’s all very interesting, thanks for sharing.

So this is Music program?

I think it could be good to show:

1. Normal program fpr talking in quiet (right and left)
2. Music program (your is based on Music program or another base program)?

@Bimodal_user said:

So this is Music program?

Oh yes, that’s my “guitar” program. It’s the one it seems I’ve been tweaking forever now! I dial back some compression and enable feedback management, and it becomes my “music” program - ready for my cans.

It doesn’t make much sense using pure tones with the general/speech-oriented programs: a) because you don’t necessarily need a “flat” program for general use; and b) pure tones are really messy if you don’t disable all the bells and whistles of these modern hearing aids (meaning NO feedback and wind management, noise suppression, frequency transposition, etc.).

Here is my general program (DSL v5 pediatric too):

@Bimodal_user said:

So this is Music program?

I also got the 45-phon audio file, which now allows me to craft a music program with proper compression using the equal-loudness pure-tone files for soft (45 phon), moderate (65 phon), and loud (80 phon) levels. I just ran a first iteration based on my “guitar” program and the initial compression scheme from my general program, and it already sounds really good with my headphones.

@e1405 said:

: Believe it or not, I used my “guitar” program as a template and only checked what the stock MyMusic was like after I’d finished it.

I get sick every time I see what they did with MyMusic. I could never get a satisfactory result because of the custom fitting rationale they implemented for it. There are definitely unseen settings at play beyond just the curves, and compression ratios.

You do have some correlation between them, but your guitar program isn’t as flat in the mids, which is a big drawback of MyMusic.

@flashb1024 said:

There are definitely unseen settings at play beyond just the curves

I’m certain of this. Copying one program to another, never shows up as identical.

@flashb1024 said:

You do have some correlation between them, but your guitar program isn’t as flat in the mids, which is a big drawback of MyMusic.

I spent a couple of hours testing this new music program, switching back and forth with my previous one. I still prefer the earlier version I built from my P1 — vocals come through clearer, the bass isn’t overpowering, and there’s just more detail overall.

When setting up a music program, there’s always some room for EQing it to one’s taste, I suppose. But when it comes to a guitar program, I want it as flat and uncolored as possible — that’s where the audio files or the EQ function in PEACE Equalizer really come in handy.

@PeterH said:

I’m certain of this. Copying one program to another, never shows up as identical.

I had an Oticon rep sitting in front of the workstation for close to an hour trying to tweak MyMusic on the Mores, and every kneepoint click with one value would interact with the other two.Crazy!

She got close, but by the time I left the clinic, and tuned in my car audio system, I knew it was fruitless.

Very interesting thread.

If you had to rely on visits to an audiologist, you would never be able to accomplish what you did.

I initially set up a program in my hearing aids for my classical guitar, and had everything dialed in to my satisfaction, but due to loss of flexibility in my hands, I recently switched to an electronic wind synthesizer, and it still sounds great. When playing through my amplifier, I can adjust the bass, mid, & treble controls to balance everything really nice.

My music program also seems to improve the intelligibility of voices coming out of my TV sound bar. That was unexpected!

My guitar and music programs are also great for speech in quiet or moderately complex environments. To me, that’s a sign you’ve got it right — your instrument and music sound lovely, while your own voice and conversations remain natural. I’ve had earlier iterations of these programs where my guitar sounded great, but my voice was too boomy or background chatter was unintelligible (i.e., I was clearly EQing away the flaws of my guitars…).

I play classical guitar and recorders—no amplification. A professional player that I know suddenly realized that when he dialed in his HAs to sound great, he had also masked some flaws in his playng that the world at large was hearing. In other words, he had to consult with friends to determine how his playing sounded to others. And there was a mis-match between his self curated HA program and how he sounded to others. Of course! This is unavoidable to a degree. But it’s something to consider when self programming, or having an audi program for the musician program on your hearing aid. There are an infinite number of variables! Your guitar, the room you’re playing in, the relative humidity, the strings on your guitar….yikes! Musicians with great hearing struggle with finding good tone in a bad room,etc.