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Phonak making "S" sound into "Sh" sound - any ideas?

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Edited

In trial period Phonak Naida Lumity 90 SP and quite frustrated, so please forgive any abruptness or rudeness, no offense meant.

Aid seems good except “S” sounds all sound like “Sh” sounds, even after going back for an adjustment. Fitter said she had adjusted this effect out for “female voices” but my Wife’s voice is still strongly distorted. I sort of recall that Phonak uses something called “sound recover” that does this, but my memory may be as bad as my .

If anyone can shed light on this, whether or not it helps resolve the issue, I will be quite grateful (for whatever that is worth).

The fitter and I have agreed to another appointment for further adjustment, whenever my Wife is free to accompany me.

If the instrument cannot be adjusted to not distort my Wife’s voice, that’s a deal-killer; it goes back and we start over.

Thanks in advance for any guidance y’all can supply!

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I think this is not brand-specific, I had the same with Oticon, their feature is called “Speech Rescue”, same thing here. I have different programs set up - in some I rescue what there is to be rescued and I bite the bullet when it comes to "sh"s. In the others I get a more natural sound but with less speech clarity.

It is common for Phonak to have SoundRecover active by default, and transposing “S” down can make it occupy the same frequency/ies as “Sh”. Deactivating SoundRecover can help in that regard. One programming thing I might try is reduce soft gain and/or overall gain so as to not saturate your dynamic range, particularly if the inner ear is distorting anyway.

If your hearing loss is sensorineural (particularly at that severity), it is quite common for things to be distorted due to the limitations of what the inner ear can reliably transmit. However, there are obviously other manufacturers that can reliably handle severe to profound loss, and it wouldn’t hurt to try others.

Zebras - Thanks! For confirming it is called “sound recover” and suggesting it is still set too strong.

OffendedOtter - Also Thanks! Good to know that Oticon is afflicted with the same issue, and for the warning that getting rid of the “s to sh” transposition might decrease speech clarity.

PaulC - Also Thanks. I will copy what you wrote about reducing gain so as not to saturate dynamic range, and give that suggestion to her.

I’m also interested to know what Other Manufacturers can reliably handle severe loss, as a backup if she can’t fix this. The TL;DR is that the Phonak was picked partly for the Roger Mic, which turns out to be useless, so I’m quite open to other brands.

Thanks!

@BoCat said:

Roger Mic, which turns out to be useless

That’s interesting. Could you elaborate on what you wanted it to do and what happened. Some of us here find it indispensable.

I use mine for something EVERY SINGLE DAY. And the couple times it failed because I dropped it, I’ve been devastated while it was out. They have replaced it each time, not repaired. Much like the warranty service.

WH

Very interesting! Glad I mentioned it, maybe I can learn something valuable.

Roger pairs and seems connected, Wife speaks at it and I seem to hear her, but walking about 15 ft (5 meters?) away, can’t hear her. Certainly not in a different room.

Thought it might help in car if she is driver and I’m passenger, my right (good) ear is on wrong side. Haven’t tried that yet - proximity should be OK but road noise may be a problem.

It is very useful to know that other people ‘find it indispensable’. Means I’m doing it wrong.

Is she wearing it pinned to her top? Which model roger is it? I have an On. It is wonderful in the car. Put it on the table at big family dinners with kids running around screaming. Lets me hear conversation at the table when there are conversations at the counter and in the kitchen all at the same time and people are raising their voices to be heard.

WH

Regarding “Sound Recover” (actually Sound Recover 2) I would encourage getting it adjusted rather than disabled. Goal should be for esses to sound like esses.

In reply to @BoCat

@BoCat
I hope I expressed that correctly… I CAN turn Speech Rescue up to the point where “s” sounds like “sh” (my own voice, too, a strange experience indeed!), but I adjust it down to the point where esses just sound normal still - there is a range where it morphs from natural “s” to “sh”. My decision where on that range I set the slider… It’s a bit like feedback, if you set the gain too high, you get feedback. So you set the gain just below that threshold. Very similar with Speech Rescue. I use the feature, and I like it in situations where speech is important.

Edited

In reply to @WhiteHat

Whitehat, the pamphlet that came with it says it is a Phonak PartnerMic - that’s all I know.

I’m ashamed to admit to failing to pursue getting it to work - time to try again, harder. “Wonderful in the car” is compelling.

MDB - Thanks! If she can indeed adjust it that’s the answer, not eliminating it. Just get esses to sound like esses instead of shooshes.

–OffendedOtter - Again, thanks. I’ll ask her to show me the slider and just tweak it. This is almost enough to induce me to join the self-programming contingent…

Thanks WhiteHat! I searched the Forum and found several people - MDB among them - who liked the PartnerMic for one-on-one conversations, especially in the car.

Also references to an app that goes with it, which I need to look for.

So - anything that helps with the PartnerMic is gravy. The real point was my frustration with sound recover, which has been answered, to my great relief.

PartnerMic Is pretty simple. Pair it and you should be good to go as long as you don’t expect too much. If speaker has PartnerMic close to mouth within about 40 feet (within line of sight preferably) should be good to go. If speaerk is walking ahead of you the speaker’s body will sometimes block signal. No need to use app for anything. If you try it in a group or try pointing the PartnerMic, I wouldn’t expect much.

Thanks MDB. We need to try it again, in the car, to see what works. I do not expect much and was not promised much.

They got me to come in based on ReSound having a new aid that was totally unsuitable for my level of loss (current aid from this vendor is a ReSound LiNX with old-style plastic tube, not a receiver) and since that did not work, they pushed the Phonak with remote mic as the next-best-option. And I fell for it. Still, only a week into the 60 day trial period.

My other aid is a Philips 9030 from Costco and it is OK, but at the limit of what a power level will do… I think. That fitter said she would contact Philips to see if a 9050 would work and I have not heard back from her. What really knocked me for a loop is she said I was a candidate for a cochlear implant, and I was not ready to assimilate that information. She is not the Costo person I’ve mentioned here as the “best hearing aid person I’ve ever met” - she got promoted and is no longer there. This person is new to the game and (I think) does not know all the tricks to making things work.

@BoCat said:

They got me to come in based on ReSound having a new BICROS aid that was totally unsuitable for my level of loss (

Have you considered a ?
Can you hear in your left ear?
A CI evaluation could tell you things about your hearing you may not know. No obligation to do anything. Just get good information and knowledge about your hearing and CI.

No hearing on left side, a year or so after surgery the ear went flat and the doc said he thought the prosthesis slipped and stabbed the cochlea. That was around 1976 or so. Bone conduction is also zero on that side so it is not just conductive, I think he was right about the cochlea. I do not know what that means for the viability of a on that side.

Last year I spoke with a ‘specialist’ at the urging of the ENT I went to for something more mundane, and he said he thought a CI on that side was highly dubious - an otherwise healthy auditory nerve that had seen no traffic for 40 years was unlikely to wake up. OTOH I read a blurb about a book called Cochlear Implant Basics - wait, here is a quote:
" The author had progressive hearing loss from the age of seven and wore hearing aids until he suffered a sudden total collapse of his residual hearing when he was thirty and was deaf for thirty-five years before receiving simultaneous bilateral cochlear implant surgery and went from zero speech comprehension to 85% with rehabilitation. " https://cochlearimplantbasics.com/purchase/2 – I need to read the book.
According to that, he was deaf for 35 years and the CIs worked - so I do not know what to think.

The Costco person who told me I was an implant candidate also told me that her previous patient was , so she had CIs on her mind when she saw me. And the 9030 is near maxed out at the upper frequencies, she was not sure about the 9050.

From reading on this Forum I know you have a CI and are happy with it, but I also have read that it takes quite a lot of dedicated work to assimilate it.

There are other, less objective factors at work here. I’m pathologically frightened of doctors, especially ones who promise me ‘better hearing’ - and am aware this is unreasonable, same as being afraid of all snakes is stupid, only a few are venomous. And at 76, I wonder whether I have time to work on assimilating a CI - but if not, it is still better to “die trying” than just give up.

Logically, it seems like a CI evaluation is the “next right thing to do” - after some research.

Thanks!

@BoCat said:

I also have read that it takes quite a lot of dedicated work to assimilate it.

This is a not necessarily a true statement . Like hearing everyone is different. Some people are hearing and understanding at activation. Others it takes longer and a very few don’t every get it. In general you can almost bet on 75% plus understanding in 6 month or less. That’s an assumption, not fact.

The evaluation has a number of tests to see if you are a candidate. A CAT scan is one of them. That would probably answer your question about the cochlea nerve. The surgeon would probably want to implant your hearing ear. They want success. Your left ear is hit or miss according to statistics but there are definitely people in a similar situation as yours that a CI worked for them.

If you are healthy and take care of yourself you are not too old for a CI. The rehabilitation can be anything that stimulates that CI. Not just the list of things the CI audiologist recommended. What works for you is the right thing.

It’s a big decision. Wasn’t difficult for me at all. I am bilateral CI and very appreciative to have them.

Rick you are a wonderful example of a successful person.

I am near Houston and will look for someone who will do the evaluation, but I have two immediate concerns.

One is that the ‘specialist ’ mentioned , which I thought was contraindicated for someone with stainless steel prostheses in his head. Made me distrust him, possibly wrongly. You mention a CAT scan, and I am OK with that.

Second one is, if the does not work, do I lose whatever hearing I have now, or can I go back to a hearing aid and just say “too bad that didn’t work out”? Cost some time and risk, cost Medicare a bunch, but I’m no worse off than I was.

It is indeed a big decision. In another thread, someone (maybe you) said that when a CI is appropriate there is no decision to make, it is obviously the correct approach. However the converse assertion was not made that if one is undecided, the CI is not the correct decision.

I admit that if I could hear and understand my Wife, with just a hearing aid, I would be happy and not considering going any farther. She is the only person I give a shit about and her frustration is painful for both of us.

Thanks for your guidance.

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