Skip to content
HearingTracker
Log in

Phonak Target auto. fine tuning for own voice too loud

This topic is closed.

13 replies1.6k viewsLast reply

Link to this topic

The described fix for the subject problem is: “Reduce gain and increase compression for own voice at low frequencies.”

What does “for own voice” mean there? Does Target have a way of recognizing the user’s own voice and applying the fix only when it’s present? (Some other brands claim to recognize own voice, but I haven’t seen such a claim from Phonak.) Or is it just going to apply the fix regardless? From the resulting Gain & in all programs (except Music) it appears to be: regardless. So wouldn’t the fix just reduce low freq. output in all scenarios, making “for own voice” misleading?

4 people in this conversation5 min readJump to latest

There is no subsystem recognizing, isolating and separately amplifying your voice.

Auto tuning is widely said to be very unprecise and even inaccurate. However, I find that it is a nice addition to flying blind and trial and error. Especially, when you check whether the ‘fix’ is an improvement or not.
My approach is to read the fixes as suggestions, look how they approach the problem, try it and if it doesn’t work skip it. If it works a bit, I generate some variations based on speculations and try those. If one or some work better, I generate some variations based…rinse and repeat, you get the drift. Looking at how the audiologist works with patients, you’ll just have to learn to be patient with yourself.

I applied the fix twice, and that did seem to lower the volume of my own voice although it’s still very loud. I was just wondering what the hearing cost of the fix might be.

Sounds you may have occlusion going on. Getting things tuned properly is a compromise between what should be optimal and what you can tolerate.

@brec said:

The described fix

If your still using those power domes you have the occlusion affect,this is what happens when you completely block your ears, there’s no way to just
“fix” that with software tweaks without compromising something else, you need custom made moulds with at least .8 or .9 vent, it’s amazing just how much of a difference this makes.

In reply to @MDB

@MDB said:

Sounds you may have occlusion going on.

@tenkan said:

If your still using those power domes you have the occlusion affect

Yes indeed, a lot of occlusion going on! These power domes seem almost as occlusive as the custom mold I had in one ear until I got these a few days ago. I have an appointment two days hence to have canal impressions made for custom molds.

I still don’t know, though, what I lose – the cost – for the benefit of reducing the subjective volume of my own voice; that is, the cost of reducing gain and increasing compression in the low frequencies.

@brec said:

I still don’t know, though, what I lose – the cost

Well if you get the custom moulds made and vented you won’t need to worry about this, but dropping the lower frequencies isn’t going to make much difference to your speech recognition, it will definitely stop that booming type loudness when set up to high, looking at your , I wouldn’t worry about the low end or the 8Hz, you got to concentrate on the middle frequencies we’re most of the speech is at, after your audiologist does the first fit, you can then check exactly what has been done and use it as a guide for further improvements.

In reply to @tenkan

@tenkan said:

at least .8 or .9 vent

Forgot to ask earlier… what measurement are those numbers reporting? Are those values in a neighborhood closer to or farther from complete occlusion relative to the range of available venting?

Why do you think I need custom molds? – think I do, too, but maybe not for the same reasons. Do you think I need them to get less occlusion than the Power Domes are providing, or more?

@brec said:

Are those values in a neighborhood closer to or farther

Ok so by venting the moulds you will loose the occlusion depending on the size of the vent, I think you can actually go right upto 4mm (not for you tho) so what this does is lowers the bottom end frequencies (bass, boom)

@brec said:

Why do you think I need custom molds?

Custom moulds will give you the best sound quality including the best fit to your ear canal, a perfect fit in fact = no or very little feedback ( depending on the vent size and amount of gain)
You don’t want occlusion at all so definitely the less the better for you
Some people like it the other way because the lower frequencies are severe or profound,so in this case they need no venting, so occlusive.

You can check this is the software by changing the vent size in a fitting and seeing how much things change in the lower frequencies.
Trial and error for programming.

@tenkan said:

You don’t want occlusion at all so definitely the less the better for you

Hmm? On the contrary, my working hypothesis is that total occlusion would provide the best speech intelligibility (SI), and that is my primary goal. I reserve the right to soften my criteria should total occlusion be too uncomfortable for me, but at present I believe I could adapt – if persuaded that total occlusion allowed a significant improvement in SI.

I venture this because I see frequency ranges within the speech range where gain is limited by my feedback threshold (derived from Target’s Feedback and real ear test).

I should point out that this topic is an offshoot from the primary trunk route to better SI. Thinking, for now, that very high if not total occlusion may be required for best SI, I can look for ways to mitigate the “costs” of that requirement, such as booming own voice…

@brec said:

total occlusion would provide the best speech intelligibility (SI),

Where do you that from? If this was true all custom moulds would never be offered with venting, open domes as well, so many variables coming into play here and hearing loss is not one size fits all, to much bottom end is not going to help, so whatever you think works best for you. My advice was based on your and what I would try first,but just out of curiosity what does target recommend for a first fit?
Also have you checked out the speech banana over your audiogram?

But in the coming weeks please let me know how you get on, I’m really interested in this school of thought.

I get that from the gain limitation due to feedback. Less occlusion -> less feedback.

Sorry, what does Target recommend for a first fit – recommend for what? First fit with Power Domes? With v5a Adult? The latter provides more headroom under my feedback threshold than does Phonak’s proprietary formula.

Thanks for pointing me back to the speech banana; it’s a useful reminder of what frequencies are important.

@brec said:

Sorry, what does Target recommend for a first fit – recommend for what?

For your , I believe target sets the recommended dome/moulds with venting or not based solely on what you enter. This is why this is called first fit.

Ah! It recommends M receivers with Power Domes on both sides. Which is what I happen to be wearing, although not at the behest of Target. Nice to get some validation, though!

Related discussions