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Fine tuning Phonak Audeo B90

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@glucas, @Zebras @Dani

Recently i have reprogrammed my hearing aid
i have entered my initial and later used AudiogramDirect and let software decide the programe calculation automatically. i found the TargetGain in certain frequency was showing
more than actual aided gain. Do we need to correct those setting to match the target Gain or is there any better way of managing it. I am finding the voices are too soft after doing the reprogramming especially speech in noise. Can you please advice what is the best way to correct it ?

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Hi vrd_quest,

You can increase the gain in this screen:

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I normally increase the low, medium and high separately. The other way is in this screen:

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where you could set Target as 110% gain, but that might be a bit crude.

I find it surprising that Target is higher than your actual gain. Have you done fine tuning after the AudiogramDirect?

@glucas I set occlusion compression to weak assuming it may be required
.

My audiologist used to do this , whenever I mentioned them about occlusion.

Do you think this may not be even required other than this I haven’t done anything else.

Hi Vrd_quest,

I am sorry. I do not know, as I don’t really have problems with occlusion. My loss is low and highs, whereas people who suffer from occlusion usually have a high frequency loss and their ears are blocked/occluded by a mould etc, which is why became popular for them.

You can always unset the occlusion compression and then go back to a previous session if you are not happy.

In reply to @vrd_quest

Hi glucas, thank you, Let me try this out and update. honestly i am not sure why he was doing it but i know whenever i initially complained about occlusion , he set it up for medium.

i am already using slimtip with small tip 1.2mm vent on it. i haven’t noticed occlusion since i did reprogramming even with the parameter set as Weak. anyway let me try this and check

if i understand correctly, does this mean that actual (insertion) gain should always be equal or higher than Target Gain at all frequencies ?

i also noticed you have numbered the programe, any specific advantage of it ?

On your question about insertion gain, I think it depends. Target is basically a recommendation that is initially set by Phonak (renowned for being too low), but then it gets refined over time by people like us, as Phonak collect the Statistics and then change the recommendations over time.

So, I would not actually expect it to be either too low, or too high. I think you need at first to make sure it is as close to target as possible, and then go from there. Too much bass? Then lower the “low” frequency numbers, sounds way too crisp, then lower the “high” frequency numbers. On the other hand, if it’s very dull, then up the “high” frequency numbers.

I have chosen then programmes and the order as - well, every program starts with default - Autosense. Then it depends on your preference after that. I use headphones and I don’t want feedback, so I want a quick button press for program No 1 - which is Calm Situation. I put speech in noise as 2, so 2 quick button presses - in case I find myself having difficulty and the Autosense has not worked - which is rare, and then 3 - for speech in loud noise, 4 for music and 5 for Roger. It took me a long time to figure this out actually, about 3 months! I am very happy with aids now - but will change in next 6 months to Marvel Custom or OPN S Custom.

Where are you from in India?. I have been there many times btw. Namaska!

Hey Glucas, Namashkar!!! :pray:

Great tips indeed as you have laid down a solid foundation for me to investigate & troubleshoot.

yes i am from india towards south side , from state - karnataka a IT hub. btw, how you came to know i am from india ? :slight_smile: . However, I am working in middle East - United Arab Emirates.

how about you Glucas? where are you based ?

Hi vrd_quest,

I think you said you were from India!

Ok - I have heard of Karnataka. I had two developers in my team who were from Bangalore. You speak kannada ?

I have been to Delhi, Calcutta and spent a month in Orissa - bhubaneshwar. I went to a friend’s wedding there, and a couple of my friends are from there and Puri.

I worked in the UAE as well. I spent around 3 months in Abu Dhabi. Our customers were ADNOC.

I am now living in the boring UK - in Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire. It is about 70 miles north of London.

In reply to @glucas

Hi Glucas,

i changed the occlusion Compression to OFF and recalculate it manually.

After this actual gain is almost all matching target gain. Let me observe the settings and update

is it recommended to increase by 1 or 2 db above target ?

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:slight_smile:

Thank you

Hi vrd_quest,

As I said before, it really depends on what you do with respect to Target. Target is trying to give you an accurate fit based on all user preferences for your type/shape of . You have to make small adjustments + or - the gain from there. You have to experiment and see. For me, I have always needed to increase the gain slightly, in the end by 3db for all frequencies. But for you it may be different.

Hi Glucas

Let me observe as is and change it if needed . i have been using the changes since morning finding it better than yesterday.

you are the Star :boom::boom::boom:

@Glucas, yet again with some different query… i have noticed after reprogramming i am not able to catch Certain accent more clearly [ for eg: UK / US accent] especially women, earlier also i had challenges and after audiologist did some settings, I was able to manage it & it was not like this bad. I am not sure what was done, but i assume it is something to do with high frequencies as if you see gain chart , actual gain is less than target for high frequencies , if you refer below gain chart i.e., above 2k is still below the target gain. Do u think this could be the reason ?, if so do i have to make change for for all G80,G65, G50 ?

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sound Recover2 is enabled and is set as
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i would Appreciate your advice

This is a difficult one. I would recommend that you either use Audibility Fine Tuning or (easier to do) use Automatic Fine Tuning. If you go to Automatic Fine Tuning, you can select the type of problem, and then hit the “Fix Issue” button:

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You can see here that I have selected “Speech - Moderate Female Speech in quiet” and then Select Issue - “Overall too soft”. Once you click Fix issue, you should find that it will increase the db across all frequencies that it thinks are affected.

So - if you do it this way, it does it for you - and I think it might be better as it may set other variables - like kneepoints - but I am not sure.

If you do Audibilty Fine Tuning - you have to make the adjustments - but it shows you the regions you need to adjust:

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So it has not shaded G80, which I think means that if somebody is already talking at 80db, it’s not likely you will need any more gain!

So you can do it either way. Either way, I would be careful you keep track of your sessions!

I would also experiment (personally) with switching off SoundRecover2. Yes, SoundRecover2 is supposed to be helpful - but some audiologists I have spoken to, call it the “clarity killer”!!

@glucas said:

ing off SoundRecover2. Yes, SoundRecover2 is supposed to be helpful - but some audiologists I have spoken to, call it the “cl

Thank you, let me try out automatic fine tuning. earlier also soundrecover2 was enabled but it was set to 16 and now it has been automatically calculated and set it to 14.

no issues glucas, @Zebras @pvc any updates on this would highly be appreciated.

i found that speech is slight distorted for people who are near to me, mostly noticed in small rooms. i was checking the data logs to check programe mode and found to be in CALM situation only.

i am using slimtip mold with 1.2mm vent, not sure if it is something to do with vent size or over amplified

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I would be no help. I’ve got a conductive loss so don’t have any of the issues you are describing. I’ve never had to adjust my hearing aids, the first fit has always worked great on me.

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