The Walking Dead…..(Big 6/4 manufacturers)

I have a BSc, MAud and an AuD.

@Um_bongo, I agree with you that major changes are on the horizon, but I also think that @Hearing_Potential is correct when he says that it’s not quite that easy to copy or leapfrog the established manufacturers.

The biggest hurdle is the main hearing aid chip. Advanced chip manufacturing technologies are becoming exponentially more expensive, which means that you need ever larger sales volumes to offset the development costs.

Established players have an advantage because they only incur incremental costs for each new chip generation (which still rises exponentially). Plus, they already have a working software stack.

The Chinese market alone is certainly large enough to justify a new chip development, but I don’t think this has happened yet. Tomore (mentioned by @Um_bongo) proudly shows an Onsemi chip with their products:

Nonetheless, IMHO the most compelling argument in favour of OTC gaining market share is indeed AI. Particularly the idea that gain settings only need to be approximated if AI speech enhancement becomes really really good. That won’t satisfy the audience here (myself included), but it might be very helpful and viable for a large part of the world’s population.

Prescription settings via desktop programming software and also app, BT connection direct to PC. So OTC and FTF basis. If it quacks like a duck etc. 2 aids and a charger for $100-200 wholesale. The foundations of your castle aren’t quite as solid as you migh believe.

@wtolkien said:

The biggest hurdle is the main hearing aid chip. Advanced chip manufacturing technologies are becoming exponentially more expensive, which means that you need ever larger sales volumes to offset the development costs.

Chip development is driven by volumes - given the barriers to market access (mainly first World prices) how does fully featured product coming in at 10% of current pricing sound? What do you think that does for sales volume.

So you have insider knowledge. Are you selling these products? How have you found them? Do they have an MPO control? Are they the reason for starting this topic?

If you can share some decent screenshots using the screen clipping tool I’m sure the forum members would appreciate a better look at what the software is capable of.

I think I’ve read somewhere that Starkey use onsemi in their products. It would be interesting if they could clone their software.

I can see products like this doing well in markets like India where very low cost products meet market conditions. I can see tariffs being applied in the USA and other markets to lift minimum prices to a level where they’re competing with existing manufacturers.

@Hearing_Potential said:

So you have insider knowledge. Are you selling these products? How have you found them? Do they have an MPO control? Are they the reason for starting this topic?

Give it rest with the ad hominem. You made a few claims about the technology and said they couldn’t be sold on a presciptive model. I’ve just shown you a couple of shots from the software I’ve seen. As it goes, I’m in communication with a former colleague/engineer from Knowles about bringing his products to market. Also people have derided the use of common chips, but as we know, some of the major players are using the OnSemi product. And like I’ve said; volume is the key to any chip fabrication.

We’re researching other market entrants as part of the process like Shenzen-Sehnrui, Tomore, Mirasing and Bellsing. Those firms aren’t operating within the dominating vertical integration that we’ve seen taking over the conventional market. They are starting to put out new product lines at a fraction of the supply price that we’ve seen elsewhere.

The problem is that due to the ability of the internet to convey knowledge and subsequently goods, the competitive advantage of the big 6/4 is sitting on thin ice and the role of a small scale importer/distributor in each state/area will hit critical mass. Hence the thread title.

I do plan to start selling them once we have confidence in the bulk provision, longevity of the product and the parts logistics sorted out.

You can purchase these from Alibaba.com5 right now. Looking at the more expensive model, it doesn’t seem to have any AI processing as indicated in the thread title, but it is software programmable unlike the cheaper RIC option. They’re priced at US$600 according to their official website.

@Hearing_Potential said:

That they can be programmed as prescription devices (albeit using an outdated formula) is insider knowledge.

If I couple that to Live Speech Mapping on the Med-Rx system, I circumvent the need to have a prescriptive model like NAL3 at all. When the Chinese work out how to integrate an autoREM function (established on an LSM propotionality model) into their post fit/feeback manager step, then everbody is stuffed.

@d_Wooluf said:

you’re predicting that within 1? 2? 3? years, we’ll be seeing devices comparable to current hearing aids, retailing for 500 <> 1000 dollars (?), are programmable by the user, available from AliExpress? audiologists?

Now to 18months, yes to all the rest, probably a couple of hundred for for an in person fitting. Ceiling on power might be decided by your local legislature in respect of unprescribed models.

They probably use FIG6 because it doesn’t require paid licensing as the patents have likely expired.

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Fitting in house would be verified using my Avant REM, so there’s no need to get a prescriptive target via the manufacturer software. FWIW, I don’t really use them anyway (other than as a starting point) as they’re based on a lot of assumptions about average coupling/canal volume/tymp impedance/venting that can’t be proved.

Almost always better to fit ‘blind’ on the LSM and use speech noise to get a basis, then tweak with live voice over a background noise/restaurant track.

@cvkemp said:

By the way I no long have are use a computer.

So how do you post here?